7 ms·

Why, why would you say that? Parent leaves for work, parent comes home from work with income. Is it because sex work is dangerous? So is fishing, and pizza del

Why, why would you say that? Parent leaves for work, parent comes home from work with income. Is it because sex work is dangerous? So is fishing, and pizza delivery, and construction. Is it because sex work wears down your body? Plenty of general contractors, nurses, and landscapers have jobs that are more physically demanding. I genuinely do not see how, if someone has a reasonable separation of work/home, it would present any more negativity on a kid's upbringing than any other physical labor.

_a_a_a_ 3y ago
It seems like a judgemental attitude induced by religion. Those most against prostitution seem to be in religious groups.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > It seems like a judgemental attitude induced by religion. Those most against prostitution seem to be in religious groups. That's a common misconception, but it's simply not true. If you talk to actual sex workers, they'll consistently tell you that they face judgemental attitudes and discrimination across the board, not just from religious people.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    Fair enough, that was just my impression. But it is my impression also that most *organised groups against prostitution often seem to have religion behind them. I may well be wrong though.
- dijit 3y ago
  I would go further and say that some people who are against sex work are against the propensity for other crime to occur (including trafficking, drug use etc) or for violence to be perpetrated against sex workers. Ironically, if we didn't have puritan attitudes, the majority of those issues would be mitigated quite drastically.
  - pixl97 3y ago
    In a strange twist, I wonder if the puritan attitudes increase the retail 'price' of sex work? Said attitude/laws increase risk, which lowers the number of workers in the market, which increases potential earnings of those willing to participate in the market.
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      The earnings for a streetwalker, who is at the bottom of the heap pretty much, is low. Some years ago I was offered sex for £15. I still feel sorry for that lonely lady who was just trying to get by best she could. I hope she's well.
      - jimmygrapes 3y ago
        As I moved across my country (US) I stopped at a hotel for the night. As I got out of my car in the hotel parking lot, an emaciated, twitchy, and frankly quite unattractive woman approached me and explicitly offered me her mouth to "release that road trip stress". I said no, thanks for the offer but I have to get some rest, sorry, maybe next time. Certainly not my first encounter with the hallowed and empowered sex worker caste, and my response was met with apparent grace. She moved along to the next family pulling up. Between the time it took for me to check in to my $25+tax/night room and get back to my car to park closer to my assigned room, 3 of my 4 windows were smashed and 4 of my 6 Rubbermaid bins and suitcases full of personal belongings were gone. It was full daylight and there were many other people going in and out of the area. There were cameras. It was the middle of a built up suburban area that appeared nominally safe. All I got from the hotel was a 20% discount for the night. All I got from the experience was an increase in multiple forms of prejudicial behavior that I still struggle with daily. I also have a lot of... experience with the sex industry, from multiple angles. I say this just as a anecdote, but my overall take is that people in this industry are not necessarily "just trying to get by". There are at least some participants whose primary goal is to harm others in some way for their own enjoyment -- on all sides.
        true_religion 3y ago
ilyt 3y ago
Well, one day kid will want to know where you work and what you do and you can't lie forever. Especially if somehow they learn early or other kids will. But yeah there is plenty of worse things that can happen.
- candiodari 3y ago
  I hate that people have a purely punitive approach to this. They get to feel puritan with a semi-reasonable argument: sex work damages others! It damages children! And, for that they get to do anything, because now they want to "help children", and not what they're really doing, using violence against children to attempt to impose their own moral values on the world. What they're really doing ... that sounds a bit bad. But it sounds bad because it is bad. And let's ignore that organisations like the police or Child Services definitely have their share of people who merely want to use violence against children, for whatever reason, because those definitely exist. Look at what these people DO! Are they improving child services for the children in there? No, of course not. These moral crusaders are, effectively, looking to punish children so they can look good and moral. Damaging real people, real children with real violence so society can look just a little closer to their moral ideal. You see ... what determines if this is better or worse is the alternative. If you're really after the welfare of the child, what determines your position is the alternative ... What damages the child more? That's what matters for the moral position. Taking the child away, in India, leads to this: https://borgenproject.org/orphans-in-india/ https://borgenproject.org/orphans-in-india/ So no, a parent who's a sex worker is a LOT better. That should be the basis for your moral position. It's all well and good to define an ideal and then blame people for not attaining perfection ... but of course we'd all be in jail if that's how we actually work. Is leaving children with sex workers ideal? No, but WE DON'T CARE ABOUT IDEAL. We care about the best possible situation for the child! And that, sorry, is definitely, without any doubt, letting sex workers raise children. You want to change sex work? Offer these people some better options. And if you can't do that, for whatever reason, throwing the child into child services IS NOT a good second option. And I would argue this applies to pretty much every country in the world, including the US. The situation of orphans may not be quite as bad as in India, it's certainly not better than living with (very) suboptimal parents, whether that means this or ... And, frankly, that should be the only concern.
flangola7 3y ago
A frightening large amount of people have terrible and judgemental attitudes towards sex work of any kind even though there they are objectively irrational. Rather than introspect, they try to debate and argue they are somehow correct. This is one of my favorite most unapologetic videos on the entire internet: https://files.catbox.moe/fzmvu0.mp4 https://files.catbox.moe/fzmvu0.mp4
akomtu 3y ago
Well, sex work corrupts the workers psychologically and aids the addiction of customers. Sex work is a lot closer to selling mild drugs than to mowing lawns. It's hardly the worst thing in our society, for there are far worse white collar jobs that are officially respected, but it's not a reason to whitewash it. Another way to think about it is to imagine it's a virtual reality that customers pay for to get a dopamine rush. The VR allows to create any experience for the customers, but is it a good thing to do?
_8j50 3y ago
The idea that the person who gave birth to you is being used to pleasure random men for money is psychologically traumatizing because every child treasures and looks up to their parents (or wants to). Their life and identitiy is intertwined with yours and their decision or vicitimization is also by extension affecting you. You want your parents to be valued and respected. You would think sex for money is valuing but it is or at least feels like devaluing. It is one thing for your parent to have sex because they want to and for the sake of it, it is another thing to do it because they have to which means they are unable or unwilling to provide anything else of value to pursue partners they are interested in, instead of the general public. The idea that anyone, even neighbors and hobos could be paying to penetrate the person you treasure the most and is supposed to be role model and teach you how to live right is at the very least disturbing. Even porn stars work with other porn stars but prostitutes at best filter by appearances aside from money. Children are protective of their parents and vice versa. Whether a child or parent, seeing them become a prostitute feels like something sacred to you is being desecrated. If that doesn't make sense to you, I suggest taking off the ideological glasses.
- postmortembees 3y ago
  >If that doesn't make sense to you, I suggest taking off the ideological glasses. You might want to check and see who is wearing the ideological glasses. You are the one who has the hangup here. Sex is. People enjoy sex. People can enjoy sex with close intimate partners or flings. People can enjoy sex or perform it for money. Not all sex work is penetrative either. You've got a narrow and restrictive view of the world.
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Human psychology is not a world view. This is not a matter if opinion. You are just stuck on an extremist view where sex is cool in a ll context when it isn't.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      You're right, it's not a matter of opinion, and in this case you are the one with the wrong opinion.
paulddraper 3y ago
> how it would present any more negativity than any other physical labor The mistake is characterizing sex work as "physical labor." There is a well documented link between sex work and trauma/psychological disorders.
- capableweb 3y ago
  How would you characterize sex work if not physical labor, together with a bunch of other characteristics too. There is documented links between content moderation (and a bunch of other professions too) and trauma/psychological disorders. Hence these professions should be able to talk to psychiatrists freely, like any work that has a metal toll.
  - paulddraper 3y ago
    together with a bunch of other characteristics too
nvaofdv3332 3y ago
[flagged]
- mplewis 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nvaofdv3332 3y ago
    not an argument. and no i made this throwaway to post a different comment.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- xelia 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - nvaofdv3332 3y ago
    [flagged]
- postmortembees 3y ago
  [flagged]
majikaja 3y ago
Sex work is correlated with poverty and mental problems. Of course people are going to think such an individual is likely to be an unfit parent.

_a_a_a_ 3y ago

It seems like a judgemental attitude induced by religion. Those most against prostitution seem to be in religious groups.

chimeracoder 3y ago
> It seems like a judgemental attitude induced by religion. Those most against prostitution seem to be in religious groups. That's a common misconception, but it's simply not true. If you talk to actual sex workers, they'll consistently tell you that they face judgemental attitudes and discrimination across the board, not just from religious people.
- _a_a_a_ 3y ago
  Fair enough, that was just my impression. But it is my impression also that most *organised groups against prostitution often seem to have religion behind them. I may well be wrong though.
dijit 3y ago
I would go further and say that some people who are against sex work are against the propensity for other crime to occur (including trafficking, drug use etc) or for violence to be perpetrated against sex workers. Ironically, if we didn't have puritan attitudes, the majority of those issues would be mitigated quite drastically.
- pixl97 3y ago
  In a strange twist, I wonder if the puritan attitudes increase the retail 'price' of sex work? Said attitude/laws increase risk, which lowers the number of workers in the market, which increases potential earnings of those willing to participate in the market.
  - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
    The earnings for a streetwalker, who is at the bottom of the heap pretty much, is low. Some years ago I was offered sex for £15. I still feel sorry for that lonely lady who was just trying to get by best she could. I hope she's well.
    - jimmygrapes 3y ago
      As I moved across my country (US) I stopped at a hotel for the night. As I got out of my car in the hotel parking lot, an emaciated, twitchy, and frankly quite unattractive woman approached me and explicitly offered me her mouth to "release that road trip stress". I said no, thanks for the offer but I have to get some rest, sorry, maybe next time. Certainly not my first encounter with the hallowed and empowered sex worker caste, and my response was met with apparent grace. She moved along to the next family pulling up. Between the time it took for me to check in to my $25+tax/night room and get back to my car to park closer to my assigned room, 3 of my 4 windows were smashed and 4 of my 6 Rubbermaid bins and suitcases full of personal belongings were gone. It was full daylight and there were many other people going in and out of the area. There were cameras. It was the middle of a built up suburban area that appeared nominally safe. All I got from the hotel was a 20% discount for the night. All I got from the experience was an increase in multiple forms of prejudicial behavior that I still struggle with daily. I also have a lot of... experience with the sex industry, from multiple angles. I say this just as a anecdote, but my overall take is that people in this industry are not necessarily "just trying to get by". There are at least some participants whose primary goal is to harm others in some way for their own enjoyment -- on all sides.
      - true_religion 3y ago

ilyt 3y ago

Well, one day kid will want to know where you work and what you do and you can't lie forever. Especially if somehow they learn early or other kids will. But yeah there is plenty of worse things that can happen.

candiodari 3y ago
I hate that people have a purely punitive approach to this. They get to feel puritan with a semi-reasonable argument: sex work damages others! It damages children! And, for that they get to do anything, because now they want to "help children", and not what they're really doing, using violence against children to attempt to impose their own moral values on the world. What they're really doing ... that sounds a bit bad. But it sounds bad because it is bad. And let's ignore that organisations like the police or Child Services definitely have their share of people who merely want to use violence against children, for whatever reason, because those definitely exist. Look at what these people DO! Are they improving child services for the children in there? No, of course not. These moral crusaders are, effectively, looking to punish children so they can look good and moral. Damaging real people, real children with real violence so society can look just a little closer to their moral ideal. You see ... what determines if this is better or worse is the alternative. If you're really after the welfare of the child, what determines your position is the alternative ... What damages the child more? That's what matters for the moral position. Taking the child away, in India, leads to this: https://borgenproject.org/orphans-in-india/ https://borgenproject.org/orphans-in-india/ So no, a parent who's a sex worker is a LOT better. That should be the basis for your moral position. It's all well and good to define an ideal and then blame people for not attaining perfection ... but of course we'd all be in jail if that's how we actually work. Is leaving children with sex workers ideal? No, but WE DON'T CARE ABOUT IDEAL. We care about the best possible situation for the child! And that, sorry, is definitely, without any doubt, letting sex workers raise children. You want to change sex work? Offer these people some better options. And if you can't do that, for whatever reason, throwing the child into child services IS NOT a good second option. And I would argue this applies to pretty much every country in the world, including the US. The situation of orphans may not be quite as bad as in India, it's certainly not better than living with (very) suboptimal parents, whether that means this or ... And, frankly, that should be the only concern.

flangola7 3y ago

A frightening large amount of people have terrible and judgemental attitudes towards sex work of any kind even though there they are objectively irrational. Rather than introspect, they try to debate and argue they are somehow correct. This is one of my favorite most unapologetic videos on the entire internet: https://files.catbox.moe/fzmvu0.mp4 https://files.catbox.moe/fzmvu0.mp4

akomtu 3y ago

Well, sex work corrupts the workers psychologically and aids the addiction of customers. Sex work is a lot closer to selling mild drugs than to mowing lawns. It's hardly the worst thing in our society, for there are far worse white collar jobs that are officially respected, but it's not a reason to whitewash it. Another way to think about it is to imagine it's a virtual reality that customers pay for to get a dopamine rush. The VR allows to create any experience for the customers, but is it a good thing to do?

_8j50 3y ago

The idea that the person who gave birth to you is being used to pleasure random men for money is psychologically traumatizing because every child treasures and looks up to their parents (or wants to). Their life and identitiy is intertwined with yours and their decision or vicitimization is also by extension affecting you. You want your parents to be valued and respected. You would think sex for money is valuing but it is or at least feels like devaluing. It is one thing for your parent to have sex because they want to and for the sake of it, it is another thing to do it because they have to which means they are unable or unwilling to provide anything else of value to pursue partners they are interested in, instead of the general public. The idea that anyone, even neighbors and hobos could be paying to penetrate the person you treasure the most and is supposed to be role model and teach you how to live right is at the very least disturbing. Even porn stars work with other porn stars but prostitutes at best filter by appearances aside from money. Children are protective of their parents and vice versa. Whether a child or parent, seeing them become a prostitute feels like something sacred to you is being desecrated. If that doesn't make sense to you, I suggest taking off the ideological glasses.

postmortembees 3y ago
>If that doesn't make sense to you, I suggest taking off the ideological glasses. You might want to check and see who is wearing the ideological glasses. You are the one who has the hangup here. Sex is. People enjoy sex. People can enjoy sex with close intimate partners or flings. People can enjoy sex or perform it for money. Not all sex work is penetrative either. You've got a narrow and restrictive view of the world.
- _8j50 3y ago
  Human psychology is not a world view. This is not a matter if opinion. You are just stuck on an extremist view where sex is cool in a ll context when it isn't.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    You're right, it's not a matter of opinion, and in this case you are the one with the wrong opinion.

paulddraper 3y ago

> how it would present any more negativity than any other physical labor The mistake is characterizing sex work as "physical labor." There is a well documented link between sex work and trauma/psychological disorders.

capableweb 3y ago
How would you characterize sex work if not physical labor, together with a bunch of other characteristics too. There is documented links between content moderation (and a bunch of other professions too) and trauma/psychological disorders. Hence these professions should be able to talk to psychiatrists freely, like any work that has a metal toll.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  together with a bunch of other characteristics too

nvaofdv3332 3y ago

[flagged]

mplewis 3y ago
[flagged]
- nvaofdv3332 3y ago
  not an argument. and no i made this throwaway to post a different comment.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
xelia 3y ago
[flagged]
- nvaofdv3332 3y ago
  [flagged]
postmortembees 3y ago
[flagged]

majikaja 3y ago

Sex work is correlated with poverty and mental problems. Of course people are going to think such an individual is likely to be an unfit parent.