5 ms·

I find it funny how jazz piano players have stopped using their left hand since 1950 or so;)

by Pannoniae 3y ago

myfavoritetings 3y ago
I don't understand this comment
- staunton 3y ago
  I guess it refers to them playing very fast and elaborate solos (right hand) with minimal accompaniment (left hand + bass player + drums). Minimalistic comping will also mostly leave the low notes (left hand) to the bass player and comp in a fairly high range, with more notes allocated to the right hand than left.
- Pannoniae 3y ago
  Basically, since the advent of bebop, the overwhelming majority of pianists use sparse comping. This means that they don't really provide bass, they just provide shell/rootless chords for themselves to play, the main focus is soloing in the right hand, or when others solo, just providing chords in pulses. The actual bass is provided by a double bass player, who plays a bassline. Before that, the prevalent comping style in the left hand was stride, which provides a rich bass backing. (You know, the oom-pah stuff) Contrary to the common criticism, if coordinated well, this can also work in the presence of a double bass player (just check out Fats Waller recordings, many of his Rhythm recordings had a double bass player!)
  - tunesmith 3y ago
    This sounds more like the difference between playing solo and playing in a combo. If you're playing solo these days, you pretty much have to switch between a variety of these styles in an artful way (which I find really freaking difficult). Even pre-bop, like singing Great American Songbook stuff while playing the piano, requires this. Like, for the head while you're singing you can get by on bass and chords while you sing the melody, but when it's time for your piano solo, you're basically trying to fit three responsibilities in two hands. Stride is only one way to do that, and you really only want hints of it.
    - Pannoniae 3y ago
      "and you really only want hints of it." What's wrong with full-on stride? Or using close-voiced four-to-the-bar chords? Or "mini-stride"? (Like stride but not moving the hand, only playing a chord broken up in the middle) Or mashing octaves/6ths in the left hand?
midiguy 3y ago
Well that's not really true in any sense. Almost any jazz piano player today worth their salt will favor two-handed voicings for comping, and comp with left hand while soloing.
- Pannoniae 3y ago
  Spreading a chord over two hands isn't really using your left hand though.... and playing random shell chords isn't really either. Playing an actual walking bass, stride, four-to-the-bar chords, arpeggios or boogie patterns is more like it.
  - midiguy 3y ago
    > Spreading a chord over two hands isn't really using your left hand though Kind of like how running with both legs isn't really using your left leg? I don't really understand this train of thought. > playing random shell chords Not many piano players these days use bebop era shell chords. It's all about rootless, cluster and quartal voicings. And just because they are played without regularity doesn't make them random. A skilled player places them very intentionally. > Playing an actual walking bass, stride, four-to-the-bar chords, arpeggios or boogie patterns is more like it. These techniques create a metrical regularity that is antithetical to the spontaneous and forward-pushing rhythym of post-bop era jazz. It's fine for certain styles of music.
    - makeset 3y ago
      Also most of those don’t work too well in a group setting, where other instruments are already serving the same purpose.
MrGando 3y ago
This is a very uninformed opinion that I see very often. In bebop, LH can be deceptively simple (but actually rhythmically it's not so simple). However things have dramatically changed, Brad Mehldau who's a foundational modern jazz pianist, probably the most relevant one after the last Big Tree (Hancock, Corea, Tyner), popularized things like LH counterpoint in jazz. Some of his arrangements if you watch them in mute, you could thing he's playing a Bach Fugue almost. The amount of pianists that followed this style after the 90s, is hard to keep track of, probably every single relevant pianist took things from brad, and LH counterpoint was one of them (a big one there too was Fred Hersch, who heavily influenced Brad). Then, I recommend you to check out what Sullivan Fortner is doing. Probably the next really heavy one that has managed to push the jazz lang forward after Brad.
- Jeff_Brown 3y ago
  Ooh I'm excited to hear a pianist who compares to Brad Mehldau. While we're at it, just in case there is -- is there any classical composer you know of comparable to Lowell Liebermann[1]? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sivd3ukh89k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sivd3ukh89k
  - MrGando 3y ago
    Sullivan, in terms of where he's taking jazz piano is comparable to the greats in terms of impact at his current age/maturity. This is what Brad said about Sulli last May, when he saw him live in Amsterdam (where Brad lives) > Got to hear the incomparable Sullivan Fortner last night at @bimhuis in Amsterdam. I’m sure many of you know how unreal his music is … he just blows me away every time I get to hear him. Last night was piano solo. > Sullivan is deep on all levels—touch, counterpoint, utter relaxation, swing, transparency of ideas, no matter how dense the texture. He takes you through the whole emotional spectrum, unabashed joy included. > It’s completely rooted and completely original all at once. If you have the chance to hear him, don’t miss it. He is quietly revolutionizing jazz piano playing. Actually piano playing period. (And by the way he can sing like nobody’s business, if that weren’t enough!) Hard to put it better than Brad... nails the review.
- 3y ago
mastazi 3y ago
The OP article contains a video of a performance by Emmet Cohen (who was born many decades after the 50s) doing a complicated solo based on stride piano techniques. PS In your other comment you blame bebop for this, but I don't think that contemporary jazz is necessarily all in the shadow of bebop, I think it is actually very diverse, with so many genres that are not necessarily close to bebop such as neo-swing and funk-jazz.
iainctduncan 3y ago
Block chord and barry harris chord style playing is a post 50's thing and is very much two handed. All organ and many piano players can do left hand bass lines while playing if they have no chord playing. The fact that the melody is typically above the chords is an arrangement thing based on acoustics and psychoacoustics (look up masking). You can't just do the same thing anywhere on the piano without getting muddy sounding, so unless you want to cross your arms... Most pianists put the melody on top because it sounds better and doesn't conflict with the bass.

I find it funny how jazz piano players have stopped using their left hand since 1950 or so;)

myfavoritetings 3y ago

I don't understand this comment

staunton 3y ago
I guess it refers to them playing very fast and elaborate solos (right hand) with minimal accompaniment (left hand + bass player + drums). Minimalistic comping will also mostly leave the low notes (left hand) to the bass player and comp in a fairly high range, with more notes allocated to the right hand than left.
Pannoniae 3y ago
Basically, since the advent of bebop, the overwhelming majority of pianists use sparse comping. This means that they don't really provide bass, they just provide shell/rootless chords for themselves to play, the main focus is soloing in the right hand, or when others solo, just providing chords in pulses. The actual bass is provided by a double bass player, who plays a bassline. Before that, the prevalent comping style in the left hand was stride, which provides a rich bass backing. (You know, the oom-pah stuff) Contrary to the common criticism, if coordinated well, this can also work in the presence of a double bass player (just check out Fats Waller recordings, many of his Rhythm recordings had a double bass player!)
- tunesmith 3y ago
  This sounds more like the difference between playing solo and playing in a combo. If you're playing solo these days, you pretty much have to switch between a variety of these styles in an artful way (which I find really freaking difficult). Even pre-bop, like singing Great American Songbook stuff while playing the piano, requires this. Like, for the head while you're singing you can get by on bass and chords while you sing the melody, but when it's time for your piano solo, you're basically trying to fit three responsibilities in two hands. Stride is only one way to do that, and you really only want hints of it.
  - Pannoniae 3y ago
    "and you really only want hints of it." What's wrong with full-on stride? Or using close-voiced four-to-the-bar chords? Or "mini-stride"? (Like stride but not moving the hand, only playing a chord broken up in the middle) Or mashing octaves/6ths in the left hand?

midiguy 3y ago

Well that's not really true in any sense. Almost any jazz piano player today worth their salt will favor two-handed voicings for comping, and comp with left hand while soloing.

Pannoniae 3y ago
Spreading a chord over two hands isn't really using your left hand though.... and playing random shell chords isn't really either. Playing an actual walking bass, stride, four-to-the-bar chords, arpeggios or boogie patterns is more like it.
- midiguy 3y ago
  > Spreading a chord over two hands isn't really using your left hand though Kind of like how running with both legs isn't really using your left leg? I don't really understand this train of thought. > playing random shell chords Not many piano players these days use bebop era shell chords. It's all about rootless, cluster and quartal voicings. And just because they are played without regularity doesn't make them random. A skilled player places them very intentionally. > Playing an actual walking bass, stride, four-to-the-bar chords, arpeggios or boogie patterns is more like it. These techniques create a metrical regularity that is antithetical to the spontaneous and forward-pushing rhythym of post-bop era jazz. It's fine for certain styles of music.
  - makeset 3y ago
    Also most of those don’t work too well in a group setting, where other instruments are already serving the same purpose.

MrGando 3y ago

This is a very uninformed opinion that I see very often. In bebop, LH can be deceptively simple (but actually rhythmically it's not so simple). However things have dramatically changed, Brad Mehldau who's a foundational modern jazz pianist, probably the most relevant one after the last Big Tree (Hancock, Corea, Tyner), popularized things like LH counterpoint in jazz. Some of his arrangements if you watch them in mute, you could thing he's playing a Bach Fugue almost. The amount of pianists that followed this style after the 90s, is hard to keep track of, probably every single relevant pianist took things from brad, and LH counterpoint was one of them (a big one there too was Fred Hersch, who heavily influenced Brad). Then, I recommend you to check out what Sullivan Fortner is doing. Probably the next really heavy one that has managed to push the jazz lang forward after Brad.

Jeff_Brown 3y ago
Ooh I'm excited to hear a pianist who compares to Brad Mehldau. While we're at it, just in case there is -- is there any classical composer you know of comparable to Lowell Liebermann[1]? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sivd3ukh89k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sivd3ukh89k
- MrGando 3y ago
  Sullivan, in terms of where he's taking jazz piano is comparable to the greats in terms of impact at his current age/maturity. This is what Brad said about Sulli last May, when he saw him live in Amsterdam (where Brad lives) > Got to hear the incomparable Sullivan Fortner last night at @bimhuis in Amsterdam. I’m sure many of you know how unreal his music is … he just blows me away every time I get to hear him. Last night was piano solo. > Sullivan is deep on all levels—touch, counterpoint, utter relaxation, swing, transparency of ideas, no matter how dense the texture. He takes you through the whole emotional spectrum, unabashed joy included. > It’s completely rooted and completely original all at once. If you have the chance to hear him, don’t miss it. He is quietly revolutionizing jazz piano playing. Actually piano playing period. (And by the way he can sing like nobody’s business, if that weren’t enough!) Hard to put it better than Brad... nails the review.
3y ago

mastazi 3y ago

The OP article contains a video of a performance by Emmet Cohen (who was born many decades after the 50s) doing a complicated solo based on stride piano techniques. PS In your other comment you blame bebop for this, but I don't think that contemporary jazz is necessarily all in the shadow of bebop, I think it is actually very diverse, with so many genres that are not necessarily close to bebop such as neo-swing and funk-jazz.

iainctduncan 3y ago

Block chord and barry harris chord style playing is a post 50's thing and is very much two handed. All organ and many piano players can do left hand bass lines while playing if they have no chord playing. The fact that the melody is typically above the chords is an arrangement thing based on acoustics and psychoacoustics (look up masking). You can't just do the same thing anywhere on the piano without getting muddy sounding, so unless you want to cross your arms... Most pianists put the melody on top because it sounds better and doesn't conflict with the bass.