7 ms·

I worked in a small casino. The cockiest players were the Hold Em poker players. Most were in their 20s. They saw it as a skill not gambling and certainly not a

I worked in a small casino. The cockiest players were the Hold Em poker players. Most were in their 20s. They saw it as a skill not gambling and certainly not an addiction at least any I spoke to didnt. The slots players were never satified. They were excited to spend $100 and win $10. Or win many small wins and play it all away since it wasn't real money to them. It was staggering at times to see people in one evening spend $100K casually and could no problems. Others not so much but the majority just dabbled. I gave up computer gaming before the loot box trend. But I could see its popularity. I went back to school and many 18 - 25 year old guys talked about it constantly. It was very obvious in its popularity. With slots just like US military training is stimulus response reward. I've been caught up in simple games from their hold a past time a dopamine rush. It's that 3% of people who can't turn it off that get hit the worst.

affinepplan 3y ago
poker is a skill. it is also gambling, but it's certainly very achievable to be a profitable poker player with a bit of study & practice
- golergka 3y ago
  Proper holdem skill involves so much math that it makes chess seem like a more relaxing game in comparison.
  - waprin 3y ago
    Especially since 2015 when public nash solvers became available that calculate equilibrium strategies across the whole game tree (previously they only did preflop) I have a blog dedicated to the topic www.livepokertheory.com I would stop short of saying it’s more math or more complex than chess though . The math to code a solver is hard but using one to improve at the game is easy. Most top poker pros are not mathematicians nor do they need to be. Poker is also many mixed strategies so often it doesn’t even matter what you do as long as you don’t always do the same thing But yes it’s both a skill game and a gambling game and currently my primary source of income
    - DeltaCoast 3y ago
      Thanks for sharing your blog, I've been looking for something like your trainer to help me strengthen my math.
  - RivieraKid 3y ago
    This is just not true, you don't need a lot of math to play poker at a top level.
dudul 3y ago
I dont think hold em is equivalent to gambling. It is definitely a skill/game. It has an element of randomness just like most board games for example, but it's not gambling
- raincole 3y ago
  Is gambling's issue its addictiveness, or its luck-based nature?
  - dudul 3y ago
    I dont know if it's an issue, but what characterizes gambling for me is indeed the randomness. Otherwise we would literally call any game "gambling". I'm not even sure I would put sports betting in the same bucket as gambling.
  - arlcode 3y ago
    If I recall correctly, randomness is a great way to get people addicted and engaged more. In Pocker there is a clear correlation between your actions and your results. The other people are clearly better than you are and most get the hint after a while. It's also slow enough so you get some time to think Engineered randomness (like slot machines or loot boxes) use the means of technology and presentation to dangle that bit price juuust outside your reach. They also use flashy lights and fast paced games to get you in the "zone" of gambling more and longer.
    - raincole 3y ago
      > In Pocker there is a clear correlation between your actions and your results Years ago I was okay-ish with Poker (positive net outcome after about 20k hands on pokerstars) and I'm not so sure about this. I mean it's statistically true, and calling Poker a pure-luck game is like calling golf a pure-luck game because of wind. But to me the addictiveness of Poker is pretty "Skinner Box like" -- you can literally do nothing wrong, do the theoratically best moves, and still lose hard. Of course if you did the same move every time in the same situation, it would eventually pay off. But if people are so reasonable addiction wouldn't be a problem in the first place?
Bluecobra 3y ago
Why would someone would spend $100K at a small casino vs. somewhere like Caesars Palace or Bellagio? At least you will get some nice comps. Was it better odds?
- batiudrami 3y ago
  You could avoid being in Vegas which is a plus
- tomjakubowski 3y ago
  You might want to feel like the biggest fish in a small pond and not a middle-sized fish in a big one.
- dghughes 3y ago
  People just like playing slots. We had a crowd who just liked to spend lots and they won lots too since higher denominations had a higher payback compared to lower denomination. Usually 88% for penny slots but $1, $5, $10 (per line played mind you!!) are 96% to 98%. I recall we had a few good looking people regulars who were in movies or TV or models not sure. One woman had on jeans that cost more than I made in a year. Actual diamonds for the decoration on them. They spent piles of money and on drinks. It was amazing to see especially in small town Canada with a population of no more than 70,000. And yes our comps sucked mainly due to laws on free booze or encouraging gambling. The odds/payback are industry standard it's all highly regulated here as other casinos. PAR sheets only allow so much adjustment.
gretch 3y ago
Poker is different than most other games in that you are not competing against the house. You can never ever beat the house (in the long run). Which is okay in poker because you win your money from other players. You don’t have to be “good”. You just have to be better than the next person at the table (and sufficiently better to outrun the house take).
throwaway4837 3y ago
Poker is a skill. It's one of the only casino games where you can consistently make money. You're not playing against the house, you're playing against other people. There's no such thing as a professional lottery player, or a professional slot machine player. If you're really good at poker, it can be a source of income. You have to be really, really good though.

affinepplan 3y ago

poker is a skill. it is also gambling, but it's certainly very achievable to be a profitable poker player with a bit of study & practice

golergka 3y ago
Proper holdem skill involves so much math that it makes chess seem like a more relaxing game in comparison.
- waprin 3y ago
  Especially since 2015 when public nash solvers became available that calculate equilibrium strategies across the whole game tree (previously they only did preflop) I have a blog dedicated to the topic www.livepokertheory.com I would stop short of saying it’s more math or more complex than chess though . The math to code a solver is hard but using one to improve at the game is easy. Most top poker pros are not mathematicians nor do they need to be. Poker is also many mixed strategies so often it doesn’t even matter what you do as long as you don’t always do the same thing But yes it’s both a skill game and a gambling game and currently my primary source of income
  - DeltaCoast 3y ago
    Thanks for sharing your blog, I've been looking for something like your trainer to help me strengthen my math.
- RivieraKid 3y ago
  This is just not true, you don't need a lot of math to play poker at a top level.

dudul 3y ago

I dont think hold em is equivalent to gambling. It is definitely a skill/game. It has an element of randomness just like most board games for example, but it's not gambling

raincole 3y ago
Is gambling's issue its addictiveness, or its luck-based nature?
- dudul 3y ago
  I dont know if it's an issue, but what characterizes gambling for me is indeed the randomness. Otherwise we would literally call any game "gambling". I'm not even sure I would put sports betting in the same bucket as gambling.
- arlcode 3y ago
  If I recall correctly, randomness is a great way to get people addicted and engaged more. In Pocker there is a clear correlation between your actions and your results. The other people are clearly better than you are and most get the hint after a while. It's also slow enough so you get some time to think Engineered randomness (like slot machines or loot boxes) use the means of technology and presentation to dangle that bit price juuust outside your reach. They also use flashy lights and fast paced games to get you in the "zone" of gambling more and longer.
  - raincole 3y ago
    > In Pocker there is a clear correlation between your actions and your results Years ago I was okay-ish with Poker (positive net outcome after about 20k hands on pokerstars) and I'm not so sure about this. I mean it's statistically true, and calling Poker a pure-luck game is like calling golf a pure-luck game because of wind. But to me the addictiveness of Poker is pretty "Skinner Box like" -- you can literally do nothing wrong, do the theoratically best moves, and still lose hard. Of course if you did the same move every time in the same situation, it would eventually pay off. But if people are so reasonable addiction wouldn't be a problem in the first place?

Bluecobra 3y ago

Why would someone would spend $100K at a small casino vs. somewhere like Caesars Palace or Bellagio? At least you will get some nice comps. Was it better odds?

batiudrami 3y ago
You could avoid being in Vegas which is a plus
tomjakubowski 3y ago
You might want to feel like the biggest fish in a small pond and not a middle-sized fish in a big one.
dghughes 3y ago
People just like playing slots. We had a crowd who just liked to spend lots and they won lots too since higher denominations had a higher payback compared to lower denomination. Usually 88% for penny slots but $1, $5, $10 (per line played mind you!!) are 96% to 98%. I recall we had a few good looking people regulars who were in movies or TV or models not sure. One woman had on jeans that cost more than I made in a year. Actual diamonds for the decoration on them. They spent piles of money and on drinks. It was amazing to see especially in small town Canada with a population of no more than 70,000. And yes our comps sucked mainly due to laws on free booze or encouraging gambling. The odds/payback are industry standard it's all highly regulated here as other casinos. PAR sheets only allow so much adjustment.

gretch 3y ago

Poker is different than most other games in that you are not competing against the house. You can never ever beat the house (in the long run). Which is okay in poker because you win your money from other players. You don’t have to be “good”. You just have to be better than the next person at the table (and sufficiently better to outrun the house take).

throwaway4837 3y ago

Poker is a skill. It's one of the only casino games where you can consistently make money. You're not playing against the house, you're playing against other people. There's no such thing as a professional lottery player, or a professional slot machine player. If you're really good at poker, it can be a source of income. You have to be really, really good though.