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I've wondered many times how close videogame companies are to accidentally repeating the Pinball Prohibition. There was a period of time when all pinball machin

I've wondered many times how close videogame companies are to accidentally repeating the Pinball Prohibition. There was a period of time when all pinball machines were forbidden, because lawmakers throughout the US couldn't easily enough tell the difference between which ones were gambling and which ones weren't. (That was an extinction level event that bankrupted a bunch of pinball manufacturers and nearly ended several industries.) On the one hand, a lot of the specific loopholes that games claim come directly out of the results of the Pinball Prohibition and contest laws (can't win cash back, must have winning odds posted but it can be in the fine print, things like that) so it is unlikely to repeat exactly like it happened before. But on the other hand, some of what is going on with current whales is so blatant that some have been famously referred to gambling addiction counseling and we do seem close to that political brink that "somebody must do something" and if it happens as the wrong sort of mob mentality panic, politicians are just as likely to use a sledgehammer to the entire industry than a scalpel to the worst offenders just like the Pinball Prohibition. (I sometimes worry, too, about the role that Steam's Trading Cards and Inventory items play into their Auctions might impact any sort of "videogames are gambling panic". Those systems' interaction with Steam Wallet is even dangerously close to feeling like "cash back" sometimes, though you can't actually cash it out and it is more of a gift card. [Though gift card-based gambling/embezzling is another potential panic of its own.] It's hard not to imagine politicians preferring a sledgehammer when even the largest, most trusted videogame store on personal computers wasn't immune to adding gambling-like elements and making extra money from whales.)

fbdab103 3y ago
For those who had never heard of the Pinball Prohibition, here is an article about it[0]. Features a great photo of the authorities smashing machines like it was the 1930s and eliminating a speak easy. [0] https://www.history.com/news/that-time-america-outlawed-pinball https://www.history.com/news/that-time-america-outlawed-pinb...
- nonfamous 3y ago
  There’s also the recent film, “ Pinball: The Man Who Saved the Game (2022)”, which is a fun watch.
Hermitian909 3y ago
> politicians are just as likely to use a sledgehammer to the entire industry than a scalpel to the worst offenders just like the Pinball Prohibition. This is unlikely simply due to the size of the market. Video games are played by >60% of the population and generate more revenue than movies with hundreds of thousands of jobs at stake.
- virtue3 3y ago
  Pretty sure Microsoft would have something to say. And I'm pretty sure the federal government really gives a fuck about that one.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  The point of any crackdown on gambling is to reduce revenue for what are considered to be bad actors. The size of the market might be a factor for politicians when considering how much revenue to try to reduce the industry by, but law makers continue to prove over and over again they aren't necessarily that smart once they believe their constituents are panicking about "think of the children!" Admittedly yes, destroying an entire industry that large would be an absolute worst-case scenario you would hope politicians are smart enough to avoid, I don't think it "likely" but I do find it useful to consider how far it could go, because it happened once (to Pinball), and we shouldn't forget that. (ETA: Keep in mind that gambling laws in the US are extremely local with sometimes even cities in the same state disagreeing, and if a panic happens you just need a few localities with dumbest politicians to pass the harshest bills, and others to copy cat it at "public demand". That's how it happened to Pinball. That's how it happens for all sorts of terrible laws in the last few years we could point to. Bad laws in a panic are viral in the worst ways.)
  - Hermitian909 3y ago
    > because it happened once (to Pinball) Honestly I don't think pinball is a similar example, light reading indicates the market for pinball was in the 10s of millions. Inflation adjusted it sounds like the pinball industry was 1% of what modern video games are and, IMO, that kind of difference in size is a difference in kind. A better analogy might actually be liquor and prohibition, but we're not seeing anger anywhere near that level
raincole 3y ago
> Those systems' interaction with Steam Wallet is even dangerously close to feeling like "cash back" sometimes Uh... it's actually very, very common to cash back from Steam. There is a subreddit for CSGO's real money trading[1]. It has 230k subscribers. And it's just a single game, not the whole steam. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensiveTrade/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensiveTrade/

fbdab103 3y ago

For those who had never heard of the Pinball Prohibition, here is an article about it[0]. Features a great photo of the authorities smashing machines like it was the 1930s and eliminating a speak easy. [0] https://www.history.com/news/that-time-america-outlawed-pinball https://www.history.com/news/that-time-america-outlawed-pinb...

nonfamous 3y ago
There’s also the recent film, “ Pinball: The Man Who Saved the Game (2022)”, which is a fun watch.

Hermitian909 3y ago

> politicians are just as likely to use a sledgehammer to the entire industry than a scalpel to the worst offenders just like the Pinball Prohibition. This is unlikely simply due to the size of the market. Video games are played by >60% of the population and generate more revenue than movies with hundreds of thousands of jobs at stake.

virtue3 3y ago
Pretty sure Microsoft would have something to say. And I'm pretty sure the federal government really gives a fuck about that one.
WorldMaker 3y ago
The point of any crackdown on gambling is to reduce revenue for what are considered to be bad actors. The size of the market might be a factor for politicians when considering how much revenue to try to reduce the industry by, but law makers continue to prove over and over again they aren't necessarily that smart once they believe their constituents are panicking about "think of the children!" Admittedly yes, destroying an entire industry that large would be an absolute worst-case scenario you would hope politicians are smart enough to avoid, I don't think it "likely" but I do find it useful to consider how far it could go, because it happened once (to Pinball), and we shouldn't forget that. (ETA: Keep in mind that gambling laws in the US are extremely local with sometimes even cities in the same state disagreeing, and if a panic happens you just need a few localities with dumbest politicians to pass the harshest bills, and others to copy cat it at "public demand". That's how it happened to Pinball. That's how it happens for all sorts of terrible laws in the last few years we could point to. Bad laws in a panic are viral in the worst ways.)
- Hermitian909 3y ago
  > because it happened once (to Pinball) Honestly I don't think pinball is a similar example, light reading indicates the market for pinball was in the 10s of millions. Inflation adjusted it sounds like the pinball industry was 1% of what modern video games are and, IMO, that kind of difference in size is a difference in kind. A better analogy might actually be liquor and prohibition, but we're not seeing anger anywhere near that level

raincole 3y ago

> Those systems' interaction with Steam Wallet is even dangerously close to feeling like "cash back" sometimes Uh... it's actually very, very common to cash back from Steam. There is a subreddit for CSGO's real money trading[1]. It has 230k subscribers. And it's just a single game, not the whole steam. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensiveTrade/ https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensiveTrade/