4 ms·

I'd be more sympathetic to it if Prusa hadn't been caught entirely flat footed by Bambu and was sitting on a pretty stale product line coasting on their reputat

by Fomite 3y ago

I'd be more sympathetic to it if Prusa hadn't been caught entirely flat footed by Bambu and was sitting on a pretty stale product line coasting on their reputation. I am a customer of theirs, and the last few years have been...unimpressive.

bittercynic 3y ago
I'm also a customer (mk4 kit just arrived - I'm excited to build it!) and I have mixed feelings about the accusation of "coasting". Prusa seems to keep making the classic mendel design and making it better and better. Bambu does look like a pretty impressive product, but it's a major departure from what excites me about 3d printing - the devices include the user in the process. Building a kit is part of the fun, and the device's design files being available used to be a big part of Prusa's appeal to me. Bambu seems more like a consumer product, even if it's a pretty impressive one. For people who just want no-hassle printed parts, I think the Bambu looks very compelling, but it just doesn't have that reprap spirit. I've been very happy with my Prusa mk3s for the past few years, and excited to get the new one going. I'm worried about the company, though. Seems like Prusa might be on the path of becoming one of my favorite company and then running into trouble: Pebble - no explanation required. Sparkfun - New CEO took over, company stopped doing ALL the things I loved about it. Printrbot - not sure what happened there? Prusa - hopefully different!
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Printrbot ran out of money. Couldn’t compete with cheap Chinese printers. The one thing about this whole conversation that is frustrating to me is how people blame these companies for not being cheaper than China, essentially. “Why aren’t you better than Bambu?? Why is business taking so long??” Like, this business is freaking hard. Hardware tech is nearly impossible to succeed in as a small company with low cost, consumer machines! Now competing with China, who got to free ride on accomplishments from OSHW companies and community, is just something they’re not doing for fun or whatever?? These folks are in a nearly impossible situation. China has nearly every advantage. It’s a miracle that any of them have stayed in business at all! So while I do think it sucks they’ve pulled back on open source, it’s completely understandable. These companies are barely surviving as it is. It drives me nuts how people take this all for granted. That said, Limor Fried is such a bawse. All hail Lady Ada!
  - Fomite 3y ago
    I mean, we also watched Lulzbot self-immolate on the alter of open source. When it comes down to it, "Open Source" doesn't carry much of a price premium for a lot of people. "You can print the parts yourself" doesn't carry a price premium for a lot of people. I think Prusa enjoyed the "It Just Works" and being the logical upper-level consumer printer recommendation, and a little bit conflated that with the ethos of the company. Which worked for a long time. But I think he'd be better off pushing fair labor practices and superior support as the main things, rather than grousing about open source.
- Fomite 3y ago
  I'm a little bit in a similar place. I reviewed a LulzBot SideKick recently, and my major takeaway was "This is a kickass printer from three years ago, but I'm worried about it as a new entry to the market." And there's a very good chance my lab will be replacing its current printer with a Mk4. But I think the key is I don't feel that same excitement about building a kit. The open source nature of the thing really doesn't matter to me beyond "That's nice". And that's why I bought my Mk3. Because it was a no-muss, no-fuss printer that I ordered assembled from the factory, put on my desk, and got to work with. The problem is that space is now a little more crowded, and it's hard to compete on a feature-by-feature comparison, especially at the price point. Some of that is stuff Chinese firms are getting away with, and some of it is genuinely that there's such a thing as economies of scale. But I also think Prusa has a lot of goodwill - I can't imagine another company releasing the Mk4 with a major advertised feature (input shaping) missing, and the plan for it being a one-size-fits-all approach and not getting eviscerated for it, rather than most people going "I'm pretty sure they'll work it out."
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    I think part of this is the difference between buying a 3D printer when you've got work to do for it and buying a 3D printer out of interest in additive fabrication methods and what you could do with them. If those are answered questions then you don't need the 'tinkering' stage, you need the stuff that the printer makes much more than you need new insights (or, probably even more than you need the printer itself, its just a tool on the way to getting that stuff). I bought a Prusa kit, had it sit around for a bit, finally put it together with one of my kids and since then we keep finding really good uses for it that I would never have thought of before I had the thing. The idea that you can fabricate small scale plastic components in a tiny corner of your desk has been a game changer in many ways. Just the other day a part on my car broke, which the manufacturer wants an absolutely outrageous amount of money for (it's a part of the door mechanism). An hour later or so I had a near perfect replacement in my hands (10 minutes to design it, 50 minutes to print).
    - Fomite 3y ago
      Me, having fixed something via 3d printing, to my wife: "Is this why people with woodshops are always so smug?" But yeah, my interest in 3d printers is "I need an X" - either a bespoke, custom plastic part that is made in small batches for a research project, or for my home printer, wargaming terrain, and I really don't care about modifying the printer, etc. That's also what's been standing in the way of me building a VORON - I just...don't want to.

by Fomite 3y ago

bittercynic 3y ago

I'm also a customer (mk4 kit just arrived - I'm excited to build it!) and I have mixed feelings about the accusation of "coasting". Prusa seems to keep making the classic mendel design and making it better and better. Bambu does look like a pretty impressive product, but it's a major departure from what excites me about 3d printing - the devices include the user in the process. Building a kit is part of the fun, and the device's design files being available used to be a big part of Prusa's appeal to me. Bambu seems more like a consumer product, even if it's a pretty impressive one. For people who just want no-hassle printed parts, I think the Bambu looks very compelling, but it just doesn't have that reprap spirit. I've been very happy with my Prusa mk3s for the past few years, and excited to get the new one going. I'm worried about the company, though. Seems like Prusa might be on the path of becoming one of my favorite company and then running into trouble: Pebble - no explanation required. Sparkfun - New CEO took over, company stopped doing ALL the things I loved about it. Printrbot - not sure what happened there? Prusa - hopefully different!

Robotbeat 3y ago
Printrbot ran out of money. Couldn’t compete with cheap Chinese printers. The one thing about this whole conversation that is frustrating to me is how people blame these companies for not being cheaper than China, essentially. “Why aren’t you better than Bambu?? Why is business taking so long??” Like, this business is freaking hard. Hardware tech is nearly impossible to succeed in as a small company with low cost, consumer machines! Now competing with China, who got to free ride on accomplishments from OSHW companies and community, is just something they’re not doing for fun or whatever?? These folks are in a nearly impossible situation. China has nearly every advantage. It’s a miracle that any of them have stayed in business at all! So while I do think it sucks they’ve pulled back on open source, it’s completely understandable. These companies are barely surviving as it is. It drives me nuts how people take this all for granted. That said, Limor Fried is such a bawse. All hail Lady Ada!
- Fomite 3y ago
  I mean, we also watched Lulzbot self-immolate on the alter of open source. When it comes down to it, "Open Source" doesn't carry much of a price premium for a lot of people. "You can print the parts yourself" doesn't carry a price premium for a lot of people. I think Prusa enjoyed the "It Just Works" and being the logical upper-level consumer printer recommendation, and a little bit conflated that with the ethos of the company. Which worked for a long time. But I think he'd be better off pushing fair labor practices and superior support as the main things, rather than grousing about open source.
Fomite 3y ago
I'm a little bit in a similar place. I reviewed a LulzBot SideKick recently, and my major takeaway was "This is a kickass printer from three years ago, but I'm worried about it as a new entry to the market." And there's a very good chance my lab will be replacing its current printer with a Mk4. But I think the key is I don't feel that same excitement about building a kit. The open source nature of the thing really doesn't matter to me beyond "That's nice". And that's why I bought my Mk3. Because it was a no-muss, no-fuss printer that I ordered assembled from the factory, put on my desk, and got to work with. The problem is that space is now a little more crowded, and it's hard to compete on a feature-by-feature comparison, especially at the price point. Some of that is stuff Chinese firms are getting away with, and some of it is genuinely that there's such a thing as economies of scale. But I also think Prusa has a lot of goodwill - I can't imagine another company releasing the Mk4 with a major advertised feature (input shaping) missing, and the plan for it being a one-size-fits-all approach and not getting eviscerated for it, rather than most people going "I'm pretty sure they'll work it out."
- jacquesm 3y ago
  I think part of this is the difference between buying a 3D printer when you've got work to do for it and buying a 3D printer out of interest in additive fabrication methods and what you could do with them. If those are answered questions then you don't need the 'tinkering' stage, you need the stuff that the printer makes much more than you need new insights (or, probably even more than you need the printer itself, its just a tool on the way to getting that stuff). I bought a Prusa kit, had it sit around for a bit, finally put it together with one of my kids and since then we keep finding really good uses for it that I would never have thought of before I had the thing. The idea that you can fabricate small scale plastic components in a tiny corner of your desk has been a game changer in many ways. Just the other day a part on my car broke, which the manufacturer wants an absolutely outrageous amount of money for (it's a part of the door mechanism). An hour later or so I had a near perfect replacement in my hands (10 minutes to design it, 50 minutes to print).
  - Fomite 3y ago
    Me, having fixed something via 3d printing, to my wife: "Is this why people with woodshops are always so smug?" But yeah, my interest in 3d printers is "I need an X" - either a bespoke, custom plastic part that is made in small batches for a research project, or for my home printer, wargaming terrain, and I really don't care about modifying the printer, etc. That's also what's been standing in the way of me building a VORON - I just...don't want to.