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I did briefly discuss this idea of interactions "draining energy" in the post here: https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteries https://www.v

I did briefly discuss this idea of interactions "draining energy" in the post here: https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteries https://www.vipshek.com/blog/interaction#balance-not-batteri.... I understand that the idea of draining vs. charging works for some people, but I always found this concept even more baffling. For me, when I've been in solitude for a while, I feel a restless desire to go out and interact with people. When I'm in that lonely state, I find social interaction "charging" and further solitude "draining." But when I go interact with people for a long time—especially in a large group where I don't know people well—I feel an urge to retreat to solitude. So am I charged by solitude and drained by interaction, or the other way around? It feels like the answer is "both"... so what am I supposed to do with all this? One way you could think about my model is that you have four "batteries", each of which has an optimal "charge level." If you're under that level, you'll feel a desire to be in that state for a while. If you're over it, you'll feel an aversion to being in that state. And it's possible that if you're quite introverted, your optimal level of large-group interaction is close to zero. If you're somewhere in the middle like me, though, the simple idea that you're "drained" by one thing or the other feels off.

hightrix 3y ago
As an anecdote, I am always drained by social interaction and always recharged by solitude. I can be home alone all week and still dread going out to a party if I’m not in the mood. I’m a very social person, but it is still draining. I have never felt so alone that I need social interaction, but I have frequently felt a strong need to be alone. But I’m also like the parent in that I’ve lead large teams, had greater interpersonal relationships, and have been hoisted to leadership positions regardless of if I was trying to get there or not. Finally, I imagine the reality of extrovert vs introvert is similar to the modern understanding of gender as a spectrum. I would guess there are not many people that are wholly introverted or extroverted.
- m463 3y ago
  I think there are a spectrum of social interactions. There are negative social interactions, and they frequently leave me drained, or seeking solitude. There are busy interactions where lots of people require my time and attention even though I have other things to do - they can also leave me drained. There are also positive interactions, with friends or maybe places where people are gathered with a common interest that leave me buoyant and full of energy and enthusiasm. Even online interactions might count as interactions, and fill my day with various effects on my energy. Pet interactions are generally pretty positive. I often wonder if some people use pets as proxies for human interaction (may be healthy or unhealthy)
  - yarekt 3y ago
    Yea I think you’re getting close. I enjoy social interactions, but even the most enjoyable ones drain me, even though once I recharge, I end up seeking them out despite. Sometimes the negative emphasis of the word “drain” makes it tricky to understand
    - hightrix 3y ago
      Yeah, agreed. I could be with my best friends doing my favorite activity at a pace that I chose and still be completely drained by the end of it, needing time to recoup. I imagine that, just like how it is impossible for me to empathize with someone that gets re-energized from social interaction, it is nearly impossible for an extrovert to understand how introverts feel.
- squirtlebonflow 3y ago
  I am always drained by solitude and sometimes by social interaction. help
- HPsquared 3y ago
  I think it's more than a one-dimensional thing. Like the idea of the "political compass". Just as a person's political views cannot be compressed to a single "left - right axis", their social preferences cannot be reduced to a single "introvert - extrovert axis". How is a person with existing relationships vs. new people? Similar people vs. different people? My theory is that a lot of people labelled "introvert" are just more selective then average in who they want to deal with.
- gehwartzen 3y ago
  I personally like having friends over but we all just kind of do our own thing\ sharing snacks. Having people in my space feels energizing and of course if there's something interesting on someone's mind we talk about it. But having to fill every minute with conversation to me is the draining part.
pizza 3y ago
Two aspects I can think of that contribute to a sense of ‘draining’: - how much one ‘masks’ one’s feelings - how much attention/energy one spends deeply engaging with the other thoughtfully Eg two very different examples of draining conversations: 1. you’re at a party hosted by someone you care about and being a fun guest, but more for the host’s sake because you care about them and want to show up for them and help assuage their worries their party might not be a success. you can keep your energy expenditure lowish but likely find yourself on social autopilot. passive engagement + commitment to fixing oneself to the event = energy cost 2. you run into a total stranger whose interests align exactly like yours and who is just as excited to talk to you as you are to them. But at the end of such conversations you have explored so much and learned so much from them, it takes a bit of a breather to disengage. Fun and active engagement but really high energy expenditure
- archduck 3y ago
  This calls to mind Csikszentmihalyi’s concept of _flow_. There’s too much of it to go into here, but this page illustrates how it happens and what it's like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) I posit that any activity which falls short of flow state will also cause energy drainage in kind. What distinguishes introverts and extraverts in a given social interaction, then, has to do with the degree to which they consider themselves challenged and how skillfully they think they are performing. High challenge + high ability = flow, which is an energizing state where you lose track of time. Mess with those parameters a bit and you get boredom and anxiety (along with shades of other things), which are draining states different in kind.
- squirtlebonflow 3y ago
  Ok, but that doesn't explain why extended periods of solitude are draining
22c 3y ago
I have a feeling that "need to have solitude" and "need to not feel too lonely" are completely different needs. If the lonely feelings get strong enough, they'll outweigh the need for solitude. To use a crude analogy, you can be both thirsty and busting to go to the toilet the same time.
makeitdouble 3y ago
I feel you batteries analogy with an optimal charge level perfectly encapsulates it. For a battery, getting "drained" is an expected change, perhaps "discharge" would be a more neutral way to put it, but IMO it just comes down to personal imagery.

hightrix 3y ago

As an anecdote, I am always drained by social interaction and always recharged by solitude. I can be home alone all week and still dread going out to a party if I’m not in the mood. I’m a very social person, but it is still draining. I have never felt so alone that I need social interaction, but I have frequently felt a strong need to be alone. But I’m also like the parent in that I’ve lead large teams, had greater interpersonal relationships, and have been hoisted to leadership positions regardless of if I was trying to get there or not. Finally, I imagine the reality of extrovert vs introvert is similar to the modern understanding of gender as a spectrum. I would guess there are not many people that are wholly introverted or extroverted.

m463 3y ago
I think there are a spectrum of social interactions. There are negative social interactions, and they frequently leave me drained, or seeking solitude. There are busy interactions where lots of people require my time and attention even though I have other things to do - they can also leave me drained. There are also positive interactions, with friends or maybe places where people are gathered with a common interest that leave me buoyant and full of energy and enthusiasm. Even online interactions might count as interactions, and fill my day with various effects on my energy. Pet interactions are generally pretty positive. I often wonder if some people use pets as proxies for human interaction (may be healthy or unhealthy)
- yarekt 3y ago
  Yea I think you’re getting close. I enjoy social interactions, but even the most enjoyable ones drain me, even though once I recharge, I end up seeking them out despite. Sometimes the negative emphasis of the word “drain” makes it tricky to understand
  - hightrix 3y ago
    Yeah, agreed. I could be with my best friends doing my favorite activity at a pace that I chose and still be completely drained by the end of it, needing time to recoup. I imagine that, just like how it is impossible for me to empathize with someone that gets re-energized from social interaction, it is nearly impossible for an extrovert to understand how introverts feel.
squirtlebonflow 3y ago
I am always drained by solitude and sometimes by social interaction. help
HPsquared 3y ago
I think it's more than a one-dimensional thing. Like the idea of the "political compass". Just as a person's political views cannot be compressed to a single "left - right axis", their social preferences cannot be reduced to a single "introvert - extrovert axis". How is a person with existing relationships vs. new people? Similar people vs. different people? My theory is that a lot of people labelled "introvert" are just more selective then average in who they want to deal with.
gehwartzen 3y ago
I personally like having friends over but we all just kind of do our own thing\ sharing snacks. Having people in my space feels energizing and of course if there's something interesting on someone's mind we talk about it. But having to fill every minute with conversation to me is the draining part.

pizza 3y ago

Two aspects I can think of that contribute to a sense of ‘draining’: - how much one ‘masks’ one’s feelings - how much attention/energy one spends deeply engaging with the other thoughtfully Eg two very different examples of draining conversations: 1. you’re at a party hosted by someone you care about and being a fun guest, but more for the host’s sake because you care about them and want to show up for them and help assuage their worries their party might not be a success. you can keep your energy expenditure lowish but likely find yourself on social autopilot. passive engagement + commitment to fixing oneself to the event = energy cost 2. you run into a total stranger whose interests align exactly like yours and who is just as excited to talk to you as you are to them. But at the end of such conversations you have explored so much and learned so much from them, it takes a bit of a breather to disengage. Fun and active engagement but really high energy expenditure

archduck 3y ago
This calls to mind Csikszentmihalyi’s concept of _flow_. There’s too much of it to go into here, but this page illustrates how it happens and what it's like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) I posit that any activity which falls short of flow state will also cause energy drainage in kind. What distinguishes introverts and extraverts in a given social interaction, then, has to do with the degree to which they consider themselves challenged and how skillfully they think they are performing. High challenge + high ability = flow, which is an energizing state where you lose track of time. Mess with those parameters a bit and you get boredom and anxiety (along with shades of other things), which are draining states different in kind.
squirtlebonflow 3y ago
Ok, but that doesn't explain why extended periods of solitude are draining

22c 3y ago

I have a feeling that "need to have solitude" and "need to not feel too lonely" are completely different needs. If the lonely feelings get strong enough, they'll outweigh the need for solitude. To use a crude analogy, you can be both thirsty and busting to go to the toilet the same time.

makeitdouble 3y ago

I feel you batteries analogy with an optimal charge level perfectly encapsulates it. For a battery, getting "drained" is an expected change, perhaps "discharge" would be a more neutral way to put it, but IMO it just comes down to personal imagery.