3 ms·

Maybe arguable if you don't know what consumer apps are? Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI: - It has the same 30 day retention for legal

Maybe arguable if you don't know what consumer apps are? Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI: - It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) - You can't fine tune any models that you can't fine tune on OpenAI, and in fact default access is a subset of what OpenAI offers. - "and if you're willing to spend enough, you'll get the models for yourself" is a bit of nonsense, Azure OpenAI forces everyone to make a "tenant", that's just for VPC stuff to work. Outside of that it's bog standard fine tuning and at most "on your data" which is a wrapper for chunking + vector embeddings - Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
> Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI On the contrary, I am using Azure OpenAI daily at work, and I'm explicitly not allowed to use "regular" OpenAI offerings. > It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) It doesn't, at least not for us. > Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. I'm not sure if it's narrower, but it is there and I have a strong suspicion that MS is just trying to extract additional rent from companies that really want to turn the filter off. > Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering. No. Azure OpenAI is for companies that don't play fast and loose with data - their own data, and their customer data. Of course, most companies don't give a damn, but for big enough companies, or those operating in certain industries, there are actual, severe legal consequences for mishandling the data, and such companies don't have the option to just not give a fuck and dance with OpenAI - they need to sign an actual contract with a serious entity that understands regulatory compliance, and how corporations tick. Microsoft is such entity. OpenAI isn't.
- deleted 3y ago
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- BoorishBears 3y ago
  > It doesn't, at least not for us. So then you filled out the request because the default is exactly the same as OpenAI: retained unless you manually apply for an exception. https://customervoice.microsoft.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=v4j5cvGGr0GRqy180BHbR7en2Ais5pxKtso_Pz4b1_xURE01NDY1OUhBRzQ3MkQxMUhZSE1ZUlJKTiQlQCN0PWcu https://customervoice.microsoft.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?... > I'm not sure if it's narrower, but it is there and I have a strong suspicion that MS is just trying to extract additional rent from companies that really want to turn the filter off. You don't need to question if it's narrower, OpenAI used to surface it as an API separate from the moderation API and it's much stricter by design. > No. Azure OpenAI is for companies that don't play fast and loose with data - their own data, and their customer data... I don't know if you actually believe this or you're just not aware, but the companies that don't play fast and loose aren't using OpenAI period: Azure flavored or otherwise. OpenAI has SOC2, GDPR and CCPA compliance. They comply with HIPPA and offer BAs. They sign DPAs on a case-by-case basis same as Azure. You're pretty much proving the value of Azure in your comment: it's a veneer of familiarity that coaxes people who are convinced the new kid on the block must be untrustworthy. If OpenAI can't promise something Azure can't either: They're entirely dependent on OpenAI for this. Every idiosyncrasy behind Azure OpenAI maps back 1:1 to OpenAI.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > I don't know if you actually believe this or you're just not aware, but the companies that don't play fast and loose aren't using OpenAI period: Azure flavored or otherwise. They do, and that's the biggest value proposition of Azure OpenAI right now: strong contractual guarantees, from a reputable partner (that's easy to hit with lawsuits should they go rogue :)). The current situation is that it's pretty unwise for any company to ignore GPT models. OpenAI itself is a wildcard, but getting the same from Microsoft isn't "playing fast and loose with data" any more than using Windows and Office 365 across the organization is. Most large corporations and governments have been building their office work and communication around those tools for decades now, so - questions of antitrust aside - all the kinks have been worked out. I don't think you appreciate how big a difference this makes. I mean, it's either that or all the company communication I got on this was bullshit. > OpenAI has SOC2, GDPR and CCPA compliance. They comply with HIPPA and offer BAs. That's the first I hear of it, but since I never dealt with OpenAI itself on that level, I accept this was my ignorance speaking; thanks for clarifying. > You're pretty much proving the value of Azure in your comment: it's a veneer of familiarity that coaxes people who are convinced the new kid on the block must be untrustworthy. I think you're underestimating the importance of this. What you call "veneer of familiarity" translates to billions of dollars of differences in terms of security risk. As mentioned before, MS has been in this space for a while, and has decades of trust and experience built with governments and corporations and other big organizations. Microsoft is a known, trusted quantity. That alone is worth a lot. But then, there are also technical aspects too - like how deploying to a tenant on Azure integrates properly with all the other services you use to run half the company. In practical terms, this means all use is monitored and auditable by in-house teams, and all the in-house policies are being enforced. OpenAI can't begin to offer this level of integration - they have neither technical nor legal resources for that. > If OpenAI can't promise something Azure can't either: They're entirely dependent on OpenAI for this. Every idiosyncrasy behind Azure OpenAI maps back 1:1 to OpenAI. None of that matters here. The models are what they are - peculiar large matrix multiplication as a service. By themselves, they're pretty much pure functions. The part that matters is operations - both technical and legal aspects - and this is where Microsoft and OpenAI are independent and have different offerings. Also, looking at the way money flows, I think it's OpenAI that's dependent on Microsoft right now, not the other way around. They kinda pretend to be just friends with benefits, but it's obvious who the dependent party is.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI On the contrary, I am using Azure OpenAI daily at work, and I'm explicitly not allowed to use "regular" OpenAI offerings. > It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) It doesn't, at least not for us. > Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. I'm not sure if it's narrower, but it is there and I have a strong suspicion that MS is just trying to extract additional rent from companies that really want to turn the filter off. > Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering. No. Azure OpenAI is for companies that don't play fast and loose with data - their own data, and their customer data. Of course, most companies don't give a damn, but for big enough companies, or those operating in certain industries, there are actual, severe legal consequences for mishandling the data, and such companies don't have the option to just not give a fuck and dance with OpenAI - they need to sign an actual contract with a serious entity that understands regulatory compliance, and how corporations tick. Microsoft is such entity. OpenAI isn't.

deleted 3y ago
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BoorishBears 3y ago
> It doesn't, at least not for us. So then you filled out the request because the default is exactly the same as OpenAI: retained unless you manually apply for an exception. https://customervoice.microsoft.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=v4j5cvGGr0GRqy180BHbR7en2Ais5pxKtso_Pz4b1_xURE01NDY1OUhBRzQ3MkQxMUhZSE1ZUlJKTiQlQCN0PWcu https://customervoice.microsoft.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?... > I'm not sure if it's narrower, but it is there and I have a strong suspicion that MS is just trying to extract additional rent from companies that really want to turn the filter off. You don't need to question if it's narrower, OpenAI used to surface it as an API separate from the moderation API and it's much stricter by design. > No. Azure OpenAI is for companies that don't play fast and loose with data - their own data, and their customer data... I don't know if you actually believe this or you're just not aware, but the companies that don't play fast and loose aren't using OpenAI period: Azure flavored or otherwise. OpenAI has SOC2, GDPR and CCPA compliance. They comply with HIPPA and offer BAs. They sign DPAs on a case-by-case basis same as Azure. You're pretty much proving the value of Azure in your comment: it's a veneer of familiarity that coaxes people who are convinced the new kid on the block must be untrustworthy. If OpenAI can't promise something Azure can't either: They're entirely dependent on OpenAI for this. Every idiosyncrasy behind Azure OpenAI maps back 1:1 to OpenAI.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > I don't know if you actually believe this or you're just not aware, but the companies that don't play fast and loose aren't using OpenAI period: Azure flavored or otherwise. They do, and that's the biggest value proposition of Azure OpenAI right now: strong contractual guarantees, from a reputable partner (that's easy to hit with lawsuits should they go rogue :)). The current situation is that it's pretty unwise for any company to ignore GPT models. OpenAI itself is a wildcard, but getting the same from Microsoft isn't "playing fast and loose with data" any more than using Windows and Office 365 across the organization is. Most large corporations and governments have been building their office work and communication around those tools for decades now, so - questions of antitrust aside - all the kinks have been worked out. I don't think you appreciate how big a difference this makes. I mean, it's either that or all the company communication I got on this was bullshit. > OpenAI has SOC2, GDPR and CCPA compliance. They comply with HIPPA and offer BAs. That's the first I hear of it, but since I never dealt with OpenAI itself on that level, I accept this was my ignorance speaking; thanks for clarifying. > You're pretty much proving the value of Azure in your comment: it's a veneer of familiarity that coaxes people who are convinced the new kid on the block must be untrustworthy. I think you're underestimating the importance of this. What you call "veneer of familiarity" translates to billions of dollars of differences in terms of security risk. As mentioned before, MS has been in this space for a while, and has decades of trust and experience built with governments and corporations and other big organizations. Microsoft is a known, trusted quantity. That alone is worth a lot. But then, there are also technical aspects too - like how deploying to a tenant on Azure integrates properly with all the other services you use to run half the company. In practical terms, this means all use is monitored and auditable by in-house teams, and all the in-house policies are being enforced. OpenAI can't begin to offer this level of integration - they have neither technical nor legal resources for that. > If OpenAI can't promise something Azure can't either: They're entirely dependent on OpenAI for this. Every idiosyncrasy behind Azure OpenAI maps back 1:1 to OpenAI. None of that matters here. The models are what they are - peculiar large matrix multiplication as a service. By themselves, they're pretty much pure functions. The part that matters is operations - both technical and legal aspects - and this is where Microsoft and OpenAI are independent and have different offerings. Also, looking at the way money flows, I think it's OpenAI that's dependent on Microsoft right now, not the other way around. They kinda pretend to be just friends with benefits, but it's obvious who the dependent party is.