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> They both raised me, and they both stressed the importance of good social graces. No offense intended. Parents often tell, sometimes show, but rarely teach t

> They both raised me, and they both stressed the importance of good social graces. No offense intended. Parents often tell, sometimes show, but rarely teach their kids much. Teaching isn't easy. My original point was that so much of this is also in the hands of the person, not your parents or society. Nurture isn't all external. I had a similar relationship with my parents. > But if there's a hell, my corner of it looks like a cocktail party where I'm expected to mingle with everyone and never get a moment to myself. That sounds to me like a lack of motivation, not introversion. I feel like you just don't see what's in it for you. If you were in sales, you would see that as an opportunity. Turning on charisma and charm is a skilled and conscious effort to delight people in subtle ways. Internally it's all about you, but externally it's all about them. Learning that dynamic requires experience. The only part that comes natural is the curiosity to develop a skill. Anyone can find joy in what essentially becomes a game when they understand it. > The difference is that after my dad's social butterfly antics, he was happy and fully of energy Yeah because he was satisfied with his performance. It's an interesting high. You should try it. It's worth pointing out I'm saying this as a software engineer from a small and not so well off family and only having a few friends growing up.

kstrauser 3y ago
I trust your sincerity, but our experiences couldn't be more different. First, my parents taught me, TYVM. I'm competent, and confident, in social settings. I know what's expected of me and how to do it. It's still exhausting, though. Honestly, the rest of your comment sounds more like you were always an extrovert but with social anxiety, and you got over it. I've never had social anxiety. Again, I can do all the things you're talking about, and I'm pretty good at them. When I've worked with salespeople in the past, I've been the engineer that they wanted to put in a room with customers, because I can make them laugh and give them warm fuzzy feelings about my employer. But when I'm done, my emotional batteries are completely empty and I have to recharge by myself or with a small circle of people I know very well and can relax around.
- cole-k 3y ago
  Could you describe what it feels like to have your emotional batteries empty? I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if I were in your shoes trying to woo customers. I think the negative feelings I would have afterwards would be forms of anxiety: perhaps I'm worried I didn't present myself well, I'm thinking about a blunder I made, I have to recover because there was one guy giving me a hard time and making it difficult for me to be "on", or maybe I did everything right but something else upset me (I don't like the customers, what I'm selling, the venue...). From what I gather you would feel none of these things. Edit: Another thought: would you relate being at this kind of event to performing a concert? I usually am nervous, but eventually my instincts kick in and I can play. Afterwards my first thought isn't "let's do another," it's more like "I want some ice cream and to sit down." And I admit I kind of feel this way with big social events like the one you describe - maybe I'm focusing too much of a more negative feeling when I think about what you mean by being drained.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    First, I wouldn't say I feel none of those things. I'm certainly aware of when I've made a misstep, but probably more than anyone else is.[1] I have what I think is the expected, rational amount of anxiety: I don't want to mess this up because I want to help our company close a deal. That's 99% of it, though. I'm not so much worried about making myself look bad. Second, your analogy of a concert? Spot on! Yes, that's exactly what it's like for me. The way I've felt after being on a literal stage is the same as I've felt after leaving a figurative one: "Whew, nailed it! I'm glad that's done! Now let's go play some video games for a while." [1] Someone asked me if I remembered every time my colleagues said something awkward. No, of course not. Well, that's how much they think about the mistakes that I've made. I take comfort in that.
    - cole-k 3y ago
      Thanks for your response. I thought I would get some insight into how a very different person reacts, but I think we are actually a lot more similar than I thought :) I can certainly relate to how you feel. Guess it just goes to show that my definitions of introversion and extroversion deviate from the norm quite a bit.
leonhard 3y ago
Any advice on how to develop such skills in charm and charisma?
- sublinear 3y ago
  I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not since my reply went a bit sideways. I just felt it would benefit others more to hear my perspective. Anyway, the social game is to just filter noise and find the signal you want. When you look at all the self help books on this, they're all very scholastic and merely teach techniques that sour once they're well known. A famous one is repeating someone's name back to them. I can't think of a smellier tactic than that. The goal of any social interaction is up to you. You don't have to be best friends with everyone. That's just a bonus when it happens. I suspect this is where the emotional drain occurs for a lot of people. You can't make people like you, but they're more likely to do so if you can make them think twice about disliking you. Determine what appeals to someone, adjust your style accordingly, funnel them towards what you really want to talk about, make a decision about how strong the signal is and whether to move on. I hope you see how this is kinda like gambling. This is how it can be very easy for someone to talk to 50 people and still be super pumped up to keep going. The upshot is that energy really attracts people. This energy... that's the charisma. You express it your own way and that's it. Keeping it going shouldn't be hard for anyone unless they had a murky goal to start with.
  - prewett 3y ago
    I've met people like this, and I don't think that is charisma. I think a better description of charisma is enjoying people. The people I think have the most "charisma" are the ones that always seem glad to see whoever it is, and they seem be like this for everyone. Kind of like a (pet) dog: they seem to think every new person is going to be an absolutely wonderful experience. Whereas there are some people I enjoy and others that I don't or am neutral about. I'm more like a cat: well, I might enjoy you, but we'll see about that.
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      That reverses the definition as everybody understands it. Charisma is when people enjoy your presence, which is definitely helped by them feeling good for making you feel good.

kstrauser 3y ago

I trust your sincerity, but our experiences couldn't be more different. First, my parents taught me, TYVM. I'm competent, and confident, in social settings. I know what's expected of me and how to do it. It's still exhausting, though. Honestly, the rest of your comment sounds more like you were always an extrovert but with social anxiety, and you got over it. I've never had social anxiety. Again, I can do all the things you're talking about, and I'm pretty good at them. When I've worked with salespeople in the past, I've been the engineer that they wanted to put in a room with customers, because I can make them laugh and give them warm fuzzy feelings about my employer. But when I'm done, my emotional batteries are completely empty and I have to recharge by myself or with a small circle of people I know very well and can relax around.

cole-k 3y ago
Could you describe what it feels like to have your emotional batteries empty? I'm trying to imagine how I would feel if I were in your shoes trying to woo customers. I think the negative feelings I would have afterwards would be forms of anxiety: perhaps I'm worried I didn't present myself well, I'm thinking about a blunder I made, I have to recover because there was one guy giving me a hard time and making it difficult for me to be "on", or maybe I did everything right but something else upset me (I don't like the customers, what I'm selling, the venue...). From what I gather you would feel none of these things. Edit: Another thought: would you relate being at this kind of event to performing a concert? I usually am nervous, but eventually my instincts kick in and I can play. Afterwards my first thought isn't "let's do another," it's more like "I want some ice cream and to sit down." And I admit I kind of feel this way with big social events like the one you describe - maybe I'm focusing too much of a more negative feeling when I think about what you mean by being drained.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  First, I wouldn't say I feel none of those things. I'm certainly aware of when I've made a misstep, but probably more than anyone else is.[1] I have what I think is the expected, rational amount of anxiety: I don't want to mess this up because I want to help our company close a deal. That's 99% of it, though. I'm not so much worried about making myself look bad. Second, your analogy of a concert? Spot on! Yes, that's exactly what it's like for me. The way I've felt after being on a literal stage is the same as I've felt after leaving a figurative one: "Whew, nailed it! I'm glad that's done! Now let's go play some video games for a while." [1] Someone asked me if I remembered every time my colleagues said something awkward. No, of course not. Well, that's how much they think about the mistakes that I've made. I take comfort in that.
  - cole-k 3y ago
    Thanks for your response. I thought I would get some insight into how a very different person reacts, but I think we are actually a lot more similar than I thought :) I can certainly relate to how you feel. Guess it just goes to show that my definitions of introversion and extroversion deviate from the norm quite a bit.

leonhard 3y ago

Any advice on how to develop such skills in charm and charisma?

sublinear 3y ago
I'm not sure if this is sarcastic or not since my reply went a bit sideways. I just felt it would benefit others more to hear my perspective. Anyway, the social game is to just filter noise and find the signal you want. When you look at all the self help books on this, they're all very scholastic and merely teach techniques that sour once they're well known. A famous one is repeating someone's name back to them. I can't think of a smellier tactic than that. The goal of any social interaction is up to you. You don't have to be best friends with everyone. That's just a bonus when it happens. I suspect this is where the emotional drain occurs for a lot of people. You can't make people like you, but they're more likely to do so if you can make them think twice about disliking you. Determine what appeals to someone, adjust your style accordingly, funnel them towards what you really want to talk about, make a decision about how strong the signal is and whether to move on. I hope you see how this is kinda like gambling. This is how it can be very easy for someone to talk to 50 people and still be super pumped up to keep going. The upshot is that energy really attracts people. This energy... that's the charisma. You express it your own way and that's it. Keeping it going shouldn't be hard for anyone unless they had a murky goal to start with.
- prewett 3y ago
  I've met people like this, and I don't think that is charisma. I think a better description of charisma is enjoying people. The people I think have the most "charisma" are the ones that always seem glad to see whoever it is, and they seem be like this for everyone. Kind of like a (pet) dog: they seem to think every new person is going to be an absolutely wonderful experience. Whereas there are some people I enjoy and others that I don't or am neutral about. I'm more like a cat: well, I might enjoy you, but we'll see about that.
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    That reverses the definition as everybody understands it. Charisma is when people enjoy your presence, which is definitely helped by them feeling good for making you feel good.