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So...the thing is, the real competitors to the Prusa i3 printers are open-source. Like, actually. The Sovol SV06 is a Chinese printer very clearly based on the

So...the thing is, the real competitors to the Prusa i3 printers are open-source. Like, actually. The Sovol SV06 is a Chinese printer very clearly based on the Prusa i3 heritage. It's an excellent alternative to the MK3S+ and the firmware source and CAD designs are on GitHub. There are definitely budget-range 3D printers with an i3 heritage (probably not derived tightly from the Prusa design, a lot of them seem like the product of one engineer and a disassembled Ender 3), but the SV06 is for my money the one to get, and it's a quarter of the price of an MK3S+, without the bizarre-in-2023 "preassembled" option that's table stakes for everybody else. The bigger problem seems to be that the i3 printers are table stakes now, while Prusa engine seized up and forward progress went to pot. The Prusa XL is not vaporware but it's close and preposterously expensive, while the MK4 released without input shaping in their extremely customized port of Marlin. Those "Chinese knockoffs" are shipping Klipper-based printers, with SBCs, where you get that for free. And then you have the Bambu printers, which are OSS-compliant where required (their slicer is a derivative of PrusaSlicer) but built an in-house OS (not actually that shocking, and almost certainly not pirated; 3D printers just aren't that hard) that has given them a printer that's conservatively 18-24 months ahead of everybody except maybe Prusa with the XL. I really don't like Bambu's patent saber-rattling, that sucks, but they just shipped a better mousetrap, too. Open-source 3D printing is on the ropes because it isn't making stuff as good as the closed-source stuff. Not because of cheap cloners. I didn't want to buy a Bambu printer so held out for the Creality K1 (and they are being bad citizens, they haven't released their Klipper source) and it's not good, I waited for Prusa to sell me on a Prusa XL but to get one I'll be waiting until 2024 at the earliest and spending $500 on that "preassembled" option to boot, and...Bambu just sold me a P1S with an AMS for $1000 flat. C'mon.

wasted_intel 3y ago
> which are OSS-compliant where required This is the crux of the problem. Where Prusa is openly sharing, you have companies that are benefiting from that without reciprocating. Part of the tax you're paying when buying an i3MK4 is the continued investment in the open source/hardware contributions of the company, not just the end product. Shelling out $1k for a Bambu is your prerogative, but it does cast a vote with your wallet for a company that is more predatory than collaborative.
- Fomite 3y ago
  They may not be reciprocating in the way Prusa wants, but they're open source enough that there's also a fork of Bambu's slicer.
- eropple 3y ago
  Bambu Studio is open-source and available on GitHub. Prusa complains that it's hard to upstream, yes--but when you look at Prusa's GPL'd firmware for their printers, that's even harder to upstream. They don't even try to upstream to Marlin! But they don't complain about that. At least Creality, of all people, sponsors Marlin development--like, with money. So what, exactly, is your point here? Bambu is compliant and is reciprocating; OrcaSlicer derives from Bambu Studio and works great. Their printer firmware is not as far as anyone can prove derived from GPL software (and I tend to think that by now somebody would've found it), so they keep that. Let's get to the brassest of tacks: one can talk about "contributing" until one's blue (or orange) in the face, but Prusa can't or won't ship a functioning, assembled-before-you-get-it multimaterial CoreXY for less than $2,500. Bambu came out the gate with one, not reliant on Marlin or Klipper, and it actually works. I genuinely can't believe I'm having to point this out, because I think Bambu does suck as a company and sniffing about patents well-and-truly sucks, but they remain, and are the only, such bastard-coated bastards that can actually ship something usable at a price somebody can afford. $2500 for a Prusa XL would be more expensive than my CNC. I actually do need multimaterial, not for models but for tooling, so continuing to limp along with my collection of Klipper printers isn't reasonable. So what's your actual solution for a quality-outcomes tool at a reasonable price?
  - thrtythreeforty 3y ago
    What CNC do you recommend for <$2500?
    - eropple 3y ago
      I don't. ;) I have regrets.
      - 3y ago
Baeocystin 3y ago
Just wanted to add on- I've gotten more actual, paid print work done in the few weeks I've had an X1c than the previous few months with my old SeeMeCNC delta. It makes no sense to use anything else around this point- the generational difference between the machines is that great.
- eropple 3y ago
  I disagree on one point: the Bambu extruder's TPU performance isn't great. It's usable, but I'm keeping my Neptune 3 Plus around specifically because its extruder and hotend do an excellent job on flexibles.
  - Baeocystin 3y ago
    Sure, I get it. I'm keeping my delta around for taller prints, too. But they are edge cases for my daily work.
RobotToaster 3y ago
It's also worth noting that bambu are run by people who used to work at Dji, a company that made spy drones for several governments.
- mardifoufs 3y ago
  What is the threat model here? That they monitor what people are 3d printing? I mean, not exactly scary imo...
  - eropple 3y ago
    FWIW I don't feel comfortable using their cloud stuff either, and I'm buying one. They do, however, have a SD card and a LAN-only option.
- Baeocystin 3y ago
  Nation-state issues are their own thing, and I agree we should be aware of them. That being said, everyone I've interacted with at/from DJI have been fellow tech-nerds of the highest order, and I mean that as a compliment. I've enjoyed talking to people who are excited about building things.
- fomine3 3y ago
  It seems to a good indicator that the team is superior
- imp0cat 3y ago
  Yes, but then again, it is a Chinese company, so all bets are off.

wasted_intel 3y ago

> which are OSS-compliant where required This is the crux of the problem. Where Prusa is openly sharing, you have companies that are benefiting from that without reciprocating. Part of the tax you're paying when buying an i3MK4 is the continued investment in the open source/hardware contributions of the company, not just the end product. Shelling out $1k for a Bambu is your prerogative, but it does cast a vote with your wallet for a company that is more predatory than collaborative.

Fomite 3y ago
They may not be reciprocating in the way Prusa wants, but they're open source enough that there's also a fork of Bambu's slicer.
eropple 3y ago
Bambu Studio is open-source and available on GitHub. Prusa complains that it's hard to upstream, yes--but when you look at Prusa's GPL'd firmware for their printers, that's even harder to upstream. They don't even try to upstream to Marlin! But they don't complain about that. At least Creality, of all people, sponsors Marlin development--like, with money. So what, exactly, is your point here? Bambu is compliant and is reciprocating; OrcaSlicer derives from Bambu Studio and works great. Their printer firmware is not as far as anyone can prove derived from GPL software (and I tend to think that by now somebody would've found it), so they keep that. Let's get to the brassest of tacks: one can talk about "contributing" until one's blue (or orange) in the face, but Prusa can't or won't ship a functioning, assembled-before-you-get-it multimaterial CoreXY for less than $2,500. Bambu came out the gate with one, not reliant on Marlin or Klipper, and it actually works. I genuinely can't believe I'm having to point this out, because I think Bambu does suck as a company and sniffing about patents well-and-truly sucks, but they remain, and are the only, such bastard-coated bastards that can actually ship something usable at a price somebody can afford. $2500 for a Prusa XL would be more expensive than my CNC. I actually do need multimaterial, not for models but for tooling, so continuing to limp along with my collection of Klipper printers isn't reasonable. So what's your actual solution for a quality-outcomes tool at a reasonable price?
- thrtythreeforty 3y ago
  What CNC do you recommend for <$2500?
  - eropple 3y ago
    I don't. ;) I have regrets.
    - 3y ago

Baeocystin 3y ago

Just wanted to add on- I've gotten more actual, paid print work done in the few weeks I've had an X1c than the previous few months with my old SeeMeCNC delta. It makes no sense to use anything else around this point- the generational difference between the machines is that great.

eropple 3y ago
I disagree on one point: the Bambu extruder's TPU performance isn't great. It's usable, but I'm keeping my Neptune 3 Plus around specifically because its extruder and hotend do an excellent job on flexibles.
- Baeocystin 3y ago
  Sure, I get it. I'm keeping my delta around for taller prints, too. But they are edge cases for my daily work.

RobotToaster 3y ago

It's also worth noting that bambu are run by people who used to work at Dji, a company that made spy drones for several governments.

mardifoufs 3y ago
What is the threat model here? That they monitor what people are 3d printing? I mean, not exactly scary imo...
- eropple 3y ago
  FWIW I don't feel comfortable using their cloud stuff either, and I'm buying one. They do, however, have a SD card and a LAN-only option.
Baeocystin 3y ago
Nation-state issues are their own thing, and I agree we should be aware of them. That being said, everyone I've interacted with at/from DJI have been fellow tech-nerds of the highest order, and I mean that as a compliment. I've enjoyed talking to people who are excited about building things.
fomine3 3y ago
It seems to a good indicator that the team is superior
imp0cat 3y ago
Yes, but then again, it is a Chinese company, so all bets are off.