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I was just watching a podcast interview in which a British-German professor employed at an Ivy League university in the US, was talking about the elite universi

I was just watching a podcast interview in which a British-German professor employed at an Ivy League university in the US, was talking about the elite universities in the US, and how there is no equivalent in Germany. [1] The interview is in German, but what he is basically saying is that the American attitude is to very openly and purposefully create and maintain this system of elitism and everyone is openly in competition with each other. All of this is alien to us here in Germany. At first glance it seems like we got the better deal. But then you think more about it more. All the German elite send their kids to study in the US instead of studying in Germany, because there they get to network with the elite kids from all over the world. But this is not a very good thing for Germany. First of all, we have less say in how he next generation of elite in our country think. Secondly all the smart and talented people in Germany who cannot afford to emigrate get no chance to mingle with these elite kids. So if we had a system of elite unis here in Germany it might on some level be better. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Y9SomH9Nc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Y9SomH9Nc

Apocryphon 3y ago
Elites all around the world send their kids to schools to study in the U.S., or places like Oxford. Presumably more countries besides the U.S. or the U.K. have systems of elite universities. Even if Germany had such schools, you think your elites would be content with them? The problem isn't with educational egalitarianism, it's with global hegemony and your country's elites trying to sidle up with the facilities of the hegemon. Don't get rid of your egalitarianism to cater to the fickle whims of your elites.
alephnerd 3y ago
A buddy of mine at Stanford invited me to one of their CS/Eng Grad Student Socials a couple years ago. There was a pretty large clique of Germans there. Over drinks, I came to find out all those Germans attended the same university (TU Munich), and more specifically, attended the same handful of elite private Gymnasiums. Even though they all attended a public university which doesn't have legacy admissions, these children of the elite still networked and knew each other since grade school. The same thing happens in the UK (did you attend an independent or comprehensive school?) as well, and even Canada to a certain extent though a lot of this was also driven by housing prices. The US is probably going to revert to this kind of elite signaling. P.S. all those Germans were blonde and blue eyed except for one Turkish German who was clearly uncomfortable and was chatting with us Americans and Asians instead.
- elteto 3y ago
  You obviously got it wrong. The parent commenter explained that there is no elitism in Germany, because a professor said it in an interview, in German. Don't you know that Germany is the sacred, holy land, unique amongst all other lands on Earth, where elitism doesn't exist? You must have confused them with Austrians.
  - numbers_guy 3y ago
    The children of the elite are not studying CS at TUM. The parent commentator made a good point that gymnasiums is where a lot of elitism happens, but I was talking about universities and I do not think we were talking about the same "elite" demographics. Moreover, my OP was about how having a culture with elitist elements can provide a ladder for talented but not connected individuals, which is lacking in Germany, because for the most part there is a bigger divide between the educated middle class professions are the truly wealth capital owners in this land.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      Yep. You weren't denying that there is elitism in Germany, and I definetly wouldn't be surprised by old money types sending kids abroad to the US to study. The same thing happens in Canada as well - they all send their kids to Ivy Leagues if they can > children of the elite are not studying CS at TUM It was an an Eng Grad Student thing, so not just CS@Stanford, so it was mostly TUM Mgmt Majors -> McK -> Stanford MS&E or Visiting Student Researchers from TUM's MBA or Masters of Mgmt I'd disagree that these kids weren't the children of the elite. Being the child of a doctor, lawyer, or businessperson definetly places you in the elite (aka top 5% net worth) anywhere. > educated middle class professions are the truly wealth capital owners in this land I can definetly see that, but people who were Doctors, Lawyers, or Small Businessowners in West Germany (almost everyone at the event was probably born between 1990-2000, so their parents started their careers in West Germany) will probably have the tools to accumulate net worth and become "New Money" (as most HNers inevitably are as well despite what they say).

Apocryphon 3y ago

Elites all around the world send their kids to schools to study in the U.S., or places like Oxford. Presumably more countries besides the U.S. or the U.K. have systems of elite universities. Even if Germany had such schools, you think your elites would be content with them? The problem isn't with educational egalitarianism, it's with global hegemony and your country's elites trying to sidle up with the facilities of the hegemon. Don't get rid of your egalitarianism to cater to the fickle whims of your elites.

alephnerd 3y ago

A buddy of mine at Stanford invited me to one of their CS/Eng Grad Student Socials a couple years ago. There was a pretty large clique of Germans there. Over drinks, I came to find out all those Germans attended the same university (TU Munich), and more specifically, attended the same handful of elite private Gymnasiums. Even though they all attended a public university which doesn't have legacy admissions, these children of the elite still networked and knew each other since grade school. The same thing happens in the UK (did you attend an independent or comprehensive school?) as well, and even Canada to a certain extent though a lot of this was also driven by housing prices. The US is probably going to revert to this kind of elite signaling. P.S. all those Germans were blonde and blue eyed except for one Turkish German who was clearly uncomfortable and was chatting with us Americans and Asians instead.

elteto 3y ago
You obviously got it wrong. The parent commenter explained that there is no elitism in Germany, because a professor said it in an interview, in German. Don't you know that Germany is the sacred, holy land, unique amongst all other lands on Earth, where elitism doesn't exist? You must have confused them with Austrians.
- numbers_guy 3y ago
  The children of the elite are not studying CS at TUM. The parent commentator made a good point that gymnasiums is where a lot of elitism happens, but I was talking about universities and I do not think we were talking about the same "elite" demographics. Moreover, my OP was about how having a culture with elitist elements can provide a ladder for talented but not connected individuals, which is lacking in Germany, because for the most part there is a bigger divide between the educated middle class professions are the truly wealth capital owners in this land.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    Yep. You weren't denying that there is elitism in Germany, and I definetly wouldn't be surprised by old money types sending kids abroad to the US to study. The same thing happens in Canada as well - they all send their kids to Ivy Leagues if they can > children of the elite are not studying CS at TUM It was an an Eng Grad Student thing, so not just CS@Stanford, so it was mostly TUM Mgmt Majors -> McK -> Stanford MS&E or Visiting Student Researchers from TUM's MBA or Masters of Mgmt I'd disagree that these kids weren't the children of the elite. Being the child of a doctor, lawyer, or businessperson definetly places you in the elite (aka top 5% net worth) anywhere. > educated middle class professions are the truly wealth capital owners in this land I can definetly see that, but people who were Doctors, Lawyers, or Small Businessowners in West Germany (almost everyone at the event was probably born between 1990-2000, so their parents started their careers in West Germany) will probably have the tools to accumulate net worth and become "New Money" (as most HNers inevitably are as well despite what they say).