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The paper does things like ask GPT-4 to write code and then check if that code compiles. Since March, they've fine-tuned GPT-4 to add back-ticks around code, wh

The paper does things like ask GPT-4 to write code and then check if that code compiles. Since March, they've fine-tuned GPT-4 to add back-ticks around code, which improves human-readable formatting but stops the code compiling. This is interpreted as "degraded performance" in the paper even though it's improved performance from a human perspective.

josefx 3y ago
The query explicitly asks it to add no other text to the code. > it's improved performance from a human perspective. Ignoring explicit requirements is the kind of thing that makes modern day search engines a pain to use.
- lolinder 3y ago
  If I'm using it from the web UI, this is exactly what I would want—this allows the language model to define the output language so I get correct syntax highlighting, without an error-prone secondary step of language detection. If I'm using it from the API, then all I have to do is strip out the leading backticks and language name if I don't need to check the language, or alternatively parse it to determine what the output language is. It seems to me that in either case this is actually strictly better, and annotating the computer programming language used doesn't feel to me like extra text—I would think of that requirement as prohibiting a plaintext explanation before or after the code.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    It is still ignoring an explicit requirement, which is almost always bad. The user should be able to override what the creator/application thinks is 'strictly better'. Exceptions probably exist, but this isn't one of them.
    - lolinder 3y ago
      Like I said, I read their requirement differently—the phrase they use is "the code only". I don't think that including backticks is a violation of this requirement. It's still readily parseable and serves as metadata for interpreting the code. In the context of ChatGPT, which typically will provide a full explanation for the code snippet, I think this is a reasonable interpretation of the instruction.
      - lukas099 3y ago
        I understand your point better now. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, because code + metadata is still not "the code only", but it's not a totally unreasonable interpretation of the phrase.
- ambrozk 3y ago
  This sounds a lot like a disagreement over product decisions that the development team has made, and not at all what people normally think when you say "a new paper has proved GPT-4 is getting worse over time."
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    > what people normally think While we're doing Keynesian beauty contests, I think that 98% of the time when people say that a product is getting worse over time, they're referring to product decisions the development team has made, and how they have been implemented.
StackOverlord 3y ago
There is degraded performance because GPT4 refuses to carry out certain tasks. To figure it out though, you must need to be able to switch between GPT4-0316 and GPT4-0614. The task it is reluctant to do include: - legal advice - psychological guidance - complex programming tasks. IMO OpenAI is just backtracking on what it released to resegment their product into multiple offerings.
- bredren 3y ago
  >IMO OpenAI is just backtracking on what it released to resegment their product into multiple offerings. I think this is it, but also it is pulling back on the value of products if it reduces their compute costs. I'm hoping competition will be so fierce in this market that quality and opaque changes to priced LLM experiences won't be a thing for very long.
  - kvetching 3y ago
    Hilarious because Google is taking the exact opposite approach. They released Bard as a terrible model to begin with, and now you can program and have it interpret images. It's been consistently improving. OpenAI really got sidetracked when they put out such a good model that freaked everyone out. Google saw this and decided to do the opposite to prevent too much attention. Now Google can improve quietly and nobody will notice.
- ARandumGuy 3y ago
  I think it's probably a good idea that GPT4 avoids legal or psychological tasks. Those are areas where giving incorrect output can have catastrophic consequences, and I can see why GPT4's developers want to avoid potential liability.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Yes, considering those are fields where humans have to be professionally educated and licensed, and also carry liabilty for any mistakes. It probably shouldn't be used for civil or mechanical engineering either.

josefx 3y ago

The query explicitly asks it to add no other text to the code. > it's improved performance from a human perspective. Ignoring explicit requirements is the kind of thing that makes modern day search engines a pain to use.

lolinder 3y ago
If I'm using it from the web UI, this is exactly what I would want—this allows the language model to define the output language so I get correct syntax highlighting, without an error-prone secondary step of language detection. If I'm using it from the API, then all I have to do is strip out the leading backticks and language name if I don't need to check the language, or alternatively parse it to determine what the output language is. It seems to me that in either case this is actually strictly better, and annotating the computer programming language used doesn't feel to me like extra text—I would think of that requirement as prohibiting a plaintext explanation before or after the code.
- lukas099 3y ago
  It is still ignoring an explicit requirement, which is almost always bad. The user should be able to override what the creator/application thinks is 'strictly better'. Exceptions probably exist, but this isn't one of them.
  - lolinder 3y ago
    Like I said, I read their requirement differently—the phrase they use is "the code only". I don't think that including backticks is a violation of this requirement. It's still readily parseable and serves as metadata for interpreting the code. In the context of ChatGPT, which typically will provide a full explanation for the code snippet, I think this is a reasonable interpretation of the instruction.
    - lukas099 3y ago
      I understand your point better now. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, because code + metadata is still not "the code only", but it's not a totally unreasonable interpretation of the phrase.
ambrozk 3y ago
This sounds a lot like a disagreement over product decisions that the development team has made, and not at all what people normally think when you say "a new paper has proved GPT-4 is getting worse over time."
- pessimizer 3y ago
  > what people normally think While we're doing Keynesian beauty contests, I think that 98% of the time when people say that a product is getting worse over time, they're referring to product decisions the development team has made, and how they have been implemented.

StackOverlord 3y ago

There is degraded performance because GPT4 refuses to carry out certain tasks. To figure it out though, you must need to be able to switch between GPT4-0316 and GPT4-0614. The task it is reluctant to do include: - legal advice - psychological guidance - complex programming tasks. IMO OpenAI is just backtracking on what it released to resegment their product into multiple offerings.

bredren 3y ago
>IMO OpenAI is just backtracking on what it released to resegment their product into multiple offerings. I think this is it, but also it is pulling back on the value of products if it reduces their compute costs. I'm hoping competition will be so fierce in this market that quality and opaque changes to priced LLM experiences won't be a thing for very long.
- kvetching 3y ago
  Hilarious because Google is taking the exact opposite approach. They released Bard as a terrible model to begin with, and now you can program and have it interpret images. It's been consistently improving. OpenAI really got sidetracked when they put out such a good model that freaked everyone out. Google saw this and decided to do the opposite to prevent too much attention. Now Google can improve quietly and nobody will notice.
ARandumGuy 3y ago
I think it's probably a good idea that GPT4 avoids legal or psychological tasks. Those are areas where giving incorrect output can have catastrophic consequences, and I can see why GPT4's developers want to avoid potential liability.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  Yes, considering those are fields where humans have to be professionally educated and licensed, and also carry liabilty for any mistakes. It probably shouldn't be used for civil or mechanical engineering either.