5 ms·

I really encourage you to try and give up meat and eggs again! It's not too hard -- just like any other habit to build and continue. And honestly I have the sam

I really encourage you to try and give up meat and eggs again! It's not too hard -- just like any other habit to build and continue. And honestly I have the same mindset as you. The sacrifice we make to intelligent creatures for 5 minutes of sensory pleasure (taste/smell) makes no sense.

stuff4ben 3y ago
But they're sooooo tasty! Other animals kill other animals, humans are no different.
- spicymaki 3y ago
  Sure I think there is broad agreement with taste argument. However, I think we can agree that humans are on another scale with respect to animal killing. We are way past the survival of the fittest on the plains of the Serengeti here.
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    We might be, but that's not by choice for many. I hate factory farming and if we lived in a world with more wilderness and healthier oceans, I think hunting is a fairly humane to operate. For most wild animals they die horrible deaths, the most humane way to go is being taken by an expert marksman or archer during adulthood. I've seen a fish have it's face mauled off by squid, and much worse. If that fish could've been dispatched by fish spike in seconds as opposed to having it's face mauled off, I think it would've went with the spike.
  - flextheruler 3y ago
    What would you say to someone who’s only qualm is the animals humane treatment? I typically only eat chicken but I just don’t see an issue with if the chickens are humanely treated and killed. What else would we do with all the chickens besides eat them? They’d die out if we stopped eating them and it’s not like anyone’s going to put them in a zoo. The way I see it is we’ve bred these animals as livestock and we’re responsible for them as livestock and that’s okay. It’s how we treat them as livestock that matters. Factory farms are one of many gross byproducts of industrialization that we now have to deal with like fossil fuels.
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      > They’d die out if we stopped eating them and it’s not like anyone’s going to put them in a zoo. There are feral chickens in quite a few places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_chicken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_chicken Tahiti's airport has a bunch of them.
      - SoftTalker 3y ago
        I'm not sure I agree that a feral chicken has a better life than a domestic chicken being humanely raised for meat/eggs. The feral chicken probably lives in a state of borderline starvation and is at risk from disease and predators; the domestic chicken gets to walk around in a protected area and has a good supply of nutritious food and water and a place to get inside at night and when the weather is bad. Sure the big factory chicken farms are something else, but you can buy ethically sourced chickens (or raise them yourself if you have the space) if that bothers you.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        I mean, we're getting into Star Trek episode ethical/moral dilemmas; is it better to live in a gilded cage, or be free but at risk of poverty? No right answer to this.
        hombre_fatal 3y ago
        Well, the decision isn't between having feral chickens vs. caging them. Domesticated chickens are bred into existence. We could just stop doing that if we had ethical problems with it. The consideration doesn't hinge on whether there exists some wild variant of the animal we're breeding.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        My note about feral chickens was to contest the stated idea upthread that the species would die out if we stopped intentionally breeding them.
- psychlops 3y ago
  Using animal behavior as a blueprint to justify human behavior won't end well.
- legulere 3y ago
  Other animals also practice cannibalism and so do humans. Killing other animals for food is not the same as killing humans, but also we humans differ from other carnivores and omnivores. I find meat also very tasty and eat meat. There are several ways to reduce impacts though: Eating less will most likely also have a health benefit. Game doesn’t suffer it’s whole life but only when it gets hunted.
- balloonthief 3y ago
  Other animals also commit rape for pleasure, but we don't use that as a moral guideline for human behavior.
SoftTalker 3y ago
It's possible to get adequate nutrition with a vegan diet but it's a lot of effort (at least until it becomes habit) and for children it's particularly risky. People are omnivores and meat provides a lot of the nutrition we need. I don't think anyone should feel guilty about eating meat per-se, though the conditions and treatment of animals in some farming operations are valid concerns.
- civilitty 3y ago
  > the conditions and treatment of animals in some farming operations are valid concerns Anyone who has the room for a chest freezer in their garage and can afford it can go to a local farm and buy a whole (or half or quarter) cow, lamb, or pig and have them slaughtered and deep frozen. Depending on their locality, there are usually plenty of such farms that usually treat their animals much better than the farms supplying super markets. Makes it much easier to inspect their farm in person too.

stuff4ben 3y ago

But they're sooooo tasty! Other animals kill other animals, humans are no different.

spicymaki 3y ago
Sure I think there is broad agreement with taste argument. However, I think we can agree that humans are on another scale with respect to animal killing. We are way past the survival of the fittest on the plains of the Serengeti here.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  We might be, but that's not by choice for many. I hate factory farming and if we lived in a world with more wilderness and healthier oceans, I think hunting is a fairly humane to operate. For most wild animals they die horrible deaths, the most humane way to go is being taken by an expert marksman or archer during adulthood. I've seen a fish have it's face mauled off by squid, and much worse. If that fish could've been dispatched by fish spike in seconds as opposed to having it's face mauled off, I think it would've went with the spike.
- flextheruler 3y ago
  What would you say to someone who’s only qualm is the animals humane treatment? I typically only eat chicken but I just don’t see an issue with if the chickens are humanely treated and killed. What else would we do with all the chickens besides eat them? They’d die out if we stopped eating them and it’s not like anyone’s going to put them in a zoo. The way I see it is we’ve bred these animals as livestock and we’re responsible for them as livestock and that’s okay. It’s how we treat them as livestock that matters. Factory farms are one of many gross byproducts of industrialization that we now have to deal with like fossil fuels.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > They’d die out if we stopped eating them and it’s not like anyone’s going to put them in a zoo. There are feral chickens in quite a few places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_chicken https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_chicken Tahiti's airport has a bunch of them.
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      I'm not sure I agree that a feral chicken has a better life than a domestic chicken being humanely raised for meat/eggs. The feral chicken probably lives in a state of borderline starvation and is at risk from disease and predators; the domestic chicken gets to walk around in a protected area and has a good supply of nutritious food and water and a place to get inside at night and when the weather is bad. Sure the big factory chicken farms are something else, but you can buy ethically sourced chickens (or raise them yourself if you have the space) if that bothers you.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        I mean, we're getting into Star Trek episode ethical/moral dilemmas; is it better to live in a gilded cage, or be free but at risk of poverty? No right answer to this.
        hombre_fatal 3y ago
        Well, the decision isn't between having feral chickens vs. caging them. Domesticated chickens are bred into existence. We could just stop doing that if we had ethical problems with it. The consideration doesn't hinge on whether there exists some wild variant of the animal we're breeding.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        My note about feral chickens was to contest the stated idea upthread that the species would die out if we stopped intentionally breeding them.
psychlops 3y ago
Using animal behavior as a blueprint to justify human behavior won't end well.
legulere 3y ago
Other animals also practice cannibalism and so do humans. Killing other animals for food is not the same as killing humans, but also we humans differ from other carnivores and omnivores. I find meat also very tasty and eat meat. There are several ways to reduce impacts though: Eating less will most likely also have a health benefit. Game doesn’t suffer it’s whole life but only when it gets hunted.
balloonthief 3y ago
Other animals also commit rape for pleasure, but we don't use that as a moral guideline for human behavior.

SoftTalker 3y ago

It's possible to get adequate nutrition with a vegan diet but it's a lot of effort (at least until it becomes habit) and for children it's particularly risky. People are omnivores and meat provides a lot of the nutrition we need. I don't think anyone should feel guilty about eating meat per-se, though the conditions and treatment of animals in some farming operations are valid concerns.

civilitty 3y ago
> the conditions and treatment of animals in some farming operations are valid concerns Anyone who has the room for a chest freezer in their garage and can afford it can go to a local farm and buy a whole (or half or quarter) cow, lamb, or pig and have them slaughtered and deep frozen. Depending on their locality, there are usually plenty of such farms that usually treat their animals much better than the farms supplying super markets. Makes it much easier to inspect their farm in person too.