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In 30 years we are going to look back at all the "unequivocally good" electric family cars and wish we'd used the materials and energy on civilizational resilie

In 30 years we are going to look back at all the "unequivocally good" electric family cars and wish we'd used the materials and energy on civilizational resilience, not to temporarily extend the unsustainable habits of the planet's richest minority Electric vehicles can be a good thing if we also dramatically reduce our consumption of transportation and bring our political systems, lifestyles and economies in harmony with planetary boundaries. Without a corresponding sea change in expectations and way of life, they just dig us deeper into the energy trap.

slashdev 3y ago
You act like cars are a luxury good used for joy riding. Transportation is necessary. I’m all for mass transit, and making cities more walkable and friendly to cycling. That’s complementary. But cars are still necessary, and that’s not about to change.
- walleeee 3y ago
  Electric cars are a luxury good. The people buying new EVs are not the same people struggling to break even with 2 jobs. Many of the people struggling to break even are putting extra miles on their older ICE vehicles to deliver meals or groceries to the Tesla owners. We need to make cars less necessary for life. It's not an easy task, but it's a question of priorities. Do we care more about convenience in the near term, or prospects for life in the long term?
  - throwanapple 3y ago
    Plus, if you already have an older ICE car that works perfectly fine, isn't it better to keep driving it (in terms of carbon emission and other environmental impacts from mining, production, distribution and disposal), than to swap it with a new electric one?
    - actionfromafar 3y ago
      Yes, but is that a problem? Usually you sell your ICE, you don’t trash it when you buy an EV.)
      - throwanapple 3y ago
        Yes if we want to reduce total consumption of polluting resources. Depends on each person's circumstance, if you need to drive then it's better to keep using your old car but use it as little as possible and look for opportunities to replace trips with walking, cycling, public transport, etc. Rather than buying a new EV but still driving everywhere even for short trips.
        actionfromafar 3y ago
        I mean, is it more of a problem than trashing an ICE car when buying a new ICE car? It's better to use an old ICE than buying a new ICE car, too. I think so from the bottom of my heart and try to live by it.
    - slashdev 3y ago
      No, because you don’t scrap it, you sell it. That reduces the demand for new cars.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    Like I said, both are necessary and complementary. Electric vehicles don’t suddenly make alternative transportation a bad idea. Also there’s budget electric cars, and even Uber drivers purchase them. While I agree that they’re not that affordable yet, they’re not a luxury good either (although some models definitely are.)
Aurornis 3y ago
> In 30 years we are going to look back at all the "unequivocally good" electric family cars and wish we'd used the materials and energy on civilizational resilience, not to temporarily extend the unsustainable habits of the planet's richest minority EVs are key to “civilizational resilience”, when combined with the sharp increase in solar and renewable energy that we’re also going through. Fantasizing about telling all of society to stop going places isn’t realistic. The future doesn’t have to be miserable to also be sustainable.
- walleeee 3y ago
  Sustainable food production is key. Fresh water availability is key. Electric cars are a necessity for no one. EVs and renewable energy sources are being sold to us as a comprehensive solution when they are just a small part of any realistic approach to the ecological challenges we face.
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    I think EVs can have beneficial second order effects. I’ll take some progress over no progress. (But currently we aren’t even slowing down the coming “train crash”, we are merely decreasing the acceleration into the wall of food shortages and other horrors.)
    - walleeee 3y ago
      Agreed. The problem is it's too easy to look at electrification efforts, pat ourselves on the back, and stop there.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    This is so naive, I don’t know where to start. Fresh water is not that big of a deal, it’s plentiful and cheap in most places. Desalination works really well, look at Israel. Cars are required for most people to live their lives and make a living. I don’t know how you expect we’ll just magically do without.

slashdev 3y ago

You act like cars are a luxury good used for joy riding. Transportation is necessary. I’m all for mass transit, and making cities more walkable and friendly to cycling. That’s complementary. But cars are still necessary, and that’s not about to change.

walleeee 3y ago
Electric cars are a luxury good. The people buying new EVs are not the same people struggling to break even with 2 jobs. Many of the people struggling to break even are putting extra miles on their older ICE vehicles to deliver meals or groceries to the Tesla owners. We need to make cars less necessary for life. It's not an easy task, but it's a question of priorities. Do we care more about convenience in the near term, or prospects for life in the long term?
- throwanapple 3y ago
  Plus, if you already have an older ICE car that works perfectly fine, isn't it better to keep driving it (in terms of carbon emission and other environmental impacts from mining, production, distribution and disposal), than to swap it with a new electric one?
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    Yes, but is that a problem? Usually you sell your ICE, you don’t trash it when you buy an EV.)
    - throwanapple 3y ago
      Yes if we want to reduce total consumption of polluting resources. Depends on each person's circumstance, if you need to drive then it's better to keep using your old car but use it as little as possible and look for opportunities to replace trips with walking, cycling, public transport, etc. Rather than buying a new EV but still driving everywhere even for short trips.
      - actionfromafar 3y ago
        I mean, is it more of a problem than trashing an ICE car when buying a new ICE car? It's better to use an old ICE than buying a new ICE car, too. I think so from the bottom of my heart and try to live by it.
  - slashdev 3y ago
    No, because you don’t scrap it, you sell it. That reduces the demand for new cars.
- slashdev 3y ago
  Like I said, both are necessary and complementary. Electric vehicles don’t suddenly make alternative transportation a bad idea. Also there’s budget electric cars, and even Uber drivers purchase them. While I agree that they’re not that affordable yet, they’re not a luxury good either (although some models definitely are.)

Aurornis 3y ago

> In 30 years we are going to look back at all the "unequivocally good" electric family cars and wish we'd used the materials and energy on civilizational resilience, not to temporarily extend the unsustainable habits of the planet's richest minority EVs are key to “civilizational resilience”, when combined with the sharp increase in solar and renewable energy that we’re also going through. Fantasizing about telling all of society to stop going places isn’t realistic. The future doesn’t have to be miserable to also be sustainable.

walleeee 3y ago
Sustainable food production is key. Fresh water availability is key. Electric cars are a necessity for no one. EVs and renewable energy sources are being sold to us as a comprehensive solution when they are just a small part of any realistic approach to the ecological challenges we face.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  I think EVs can have beneficial second order effects. I’ll take some progress over no progress. (But currently we aren’t even slowing down the coming “train crash”, we are merely decreasing the acceleration into the wall of food shortages and other horrors.)
  - walleeee 3y ago
    Agreed. The problem is it's too easy to look at electrification efforts, pat ourselves on the back, and stop there.
- slashdev 3y ago
  This is so naive, I don’t know where to start. Fresh water is not that big of a deal, it’s plentiful and cheap in most places. Desalination works really well, look at Israel. Cars are required for most people to live their lives and make a living. I don’t know how you expect we’ll just magically do without.