8 ms·

At first I was a little irritated at the article's style and how it holds back the truth for a few pages, but the truth of this story turns out to be absolutely

At first I was a little irritated at the article's style and how it holds back the truth for a few pages, but the truth of this story turns out to be absolutely fascinating stuff. A quote: "Cheerleaders frequently come up in case histories of mass psychogenic illness at schools, partly because psychogenic outbreaks often start with someone of high social status. But it might also be that their enviable unity is what makes them more susceptible. In 2002, 10 students, 5 of them cheerleaders, in a rural town in North Carolina suffered from nonepileptic seizures and fainting spells. In 1952, the Associated Press reported that 165 members of the Tigerettes cheerleading squad from Monroe, La., fainted before halftime at a high-school football game in nearby Natchez, Miss." I would love to hear someone try to speculate on an evolutionary reason for this kind of behaviour. What kind of advantage might this sort of thing have given humans in the past?

droob 15y ago
Panglossian!
mcantelon 15y ago
>the truth of this story turns out to be absolutely fascinating stuff The theory of the story, more like.
- cperciva 15y ago
  The very well understood and widely studied phenomenon which is a perfect fit for observations? Saying that it's "just a theory" that mass psychogenic illness is involved here is like saying that it's "just a theory" that humans evolved from non-human primates.
  - mcantelon 15y ago
    >Part of what is baffling about the Le Roy case is that it seems to combine two equally poorly understood phenomena: conversion disorder and mass psychogenic illness Note the word "seems" and "poorly understood". They don't know what this is. They are acting on a theory.
    - Produce 15y ago
      In the language of science, they are acting on a hypothesis. Theory does not mean the same thing in science as in ordinary language - in science it typically refers to a well tested model which is capable of making predictions with a high degree of accuracy. It is far-fetched to call most things in modern psychiatry theories. The models are still underdeveloped, bad at making predictions and fail at treating ailments a lot of the time.
bluekeybox 15y ago
Three things come to mind: (1) imitating higher-status individuals may give you reproductive advantage by getting you access to a larger pool of potential mates. (2) fitting in with the herd may be beneficial in short term because that way you don't have to think for yourself (of course becoming a lemming has disadvantages as well...), (3) sharing emotions with others may help group cohesion (people develop trust of each other by observing and attempting to predict each other's behavior; the people typically deemed to be most trustworthy are those who are both friendly and easy to predict, think dog/man's best friend).
maratd 15y ago
> What kind of advantage might this sort of thing have given humans in the past? You're skipping a very important detail in all of this. The gender. A sick man deserves contempt, a sick woman deserves attention and caring. Which explains why most men insist they're fine, even when at the brink of death, while women are incapacitated with the slightest headache. In my experience, women have a tendency of succumbing to periodic ill-feeling. All of it subconscious. This brings the attention of men and family. That constant and consistent caring is habit forming and serves her well in the future when she becomes genuinely sick (or pregnant). There's your evolutionary justification. This seems like an extreme example of the above. Probably a high status female overdid it and the rest of the females were just mimicking her behavior, all of it subconsciously. While human beings are drawn to certain behaviors instinctively, the nuts and bolts of the behavior is learned and passed down culturally. In other words, women may have a predilection toward periodic ill-feeling, but in what manner they express it is up to them ... or in this case, up to the high-status female.
- andrewfelix 15y ago
  Not sure what anecdotal evidence you're leaning on to prop up that argument. My mother used to work herself to the bone even with a cold.
  - ErrantX 15y ago
    Agreed; this is not a gender thing at all. I suffer quite continual pain in my back, and have a bad habit of working through an illness to the point of exhaustion. I know plenty of friends who do the same, rarely complaining. A girl and her brother that I know are constantly ill - and moaning about the smallest thing. So it is a personality issue, I suspect, nothing to do with gender.
  - ekianjo 15y ago
    Every rule can have exceptions. I do not know if there is any data to back this up, though. Unless you consider that it seems women seem to visit doctors or medical institutions more much often than men (at least in the countries I know of). That could be an indication of this underlying behavior.
sp332 15y ago
It just sounds like mass anxiety attacks. Everyone is hyper-sensitive of their status in the group and they crank up their sympathy with each other to stay "close". Then you get a feedback loop and everyone goes nuts. Not everything has to be a survival advantage.
stellar678 15y ago
It doesn't need to have conferred advantage on anybody in the past - it could just be our incredibly complex social behaviors having a tendency to misfire in some circumstances.
agilebyte 15y ago
ad evolutionary reason (from Wiki): An evolutionary psychology explanation for this disorder, as well as for conversion disorder more generally, is that the symptom may have been evolutionary advantageous during warfare. A non-combatant with these symptoms signals non-verbally, possibly to someone speaking a different language, that she or he is not dangerous as a combatant and also may be carrying some form of dangerous infectious disease. This can explain that conversion disorder may develop following a threatening situation, that there may be a group effect with many people simultaneously developing similar symptoms, and the gender difference in prevalence.
- sp332 15y ago
  Interesting... there's a historical passage of the Bible in which David (who'd later be king) pretends to be insane in order to convince people that he's not a threat. So apparently that works. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2021&version=ESV http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2021&... (at the bottom)
azernik 15y ago
The way they explained the scientific consensus in the article, this isn't so much a selected-for behavior as a disorder in mechanisms that are generally useful, like chameleon behavior (unconsciously imitating others' mannerisms) and empathetic feeling (which helps in forming social bonds). Evolution doesn't select for diseases, but sometimes it selects for generally-good traits that just happen to be error-prone.

droob 15y ago

Panglossian!

mcantelon 15y ago

>the truth of this story turns out to be absolutely fascinating stuff The theory of the story, more like.

cperciva 15y ago
The very well understood and widely studied phenomenon which is a perfect fit for observations? Saying that it's "just a theory" that mass psychogenic illness is involved here is like saying that it's "just a theory" that humans evolved from non-human primates.
- mcantelon 15y ago
  >Part of what is baffling about the Le Roy case is that it seems to combine two equally poorly understood phenomena: conversion disorder and mass psychogenic illness Note the word "seems" and "poorly understood". They don't know what this is. They are acting on a theory.
  - Produce 15y ago
    In the language of science, they are acting on a hypothesis. Theory does not mean the same thing in science as in ordinary language - in science it typically refers to a well tested model which is capable of making predictions with a high degree of accuracy. It is far-fetched to call most things in modern psychiatry theories. The models are still underdeveloped, bad at making predictions and fail at treating ailments a lot of the time.

bluekeybox 15y ago

Three things come to mind: (1) imitating higher-status individuals may give you reproductive advantage by getting you access to a larger pool of potential mates. (2) fitting in with the herd may be beneficial in short term because that way you don't have to think for yourself (of course becoming a lemming has disadvantages as well...), (3) sharing emotions with others may help group cohesion (people develop trust of each other by observing and attempting to predict each other's behavior; the people typically deemed to be most trustworthy are those who are both friendly and easy to predict, think dog/man's best friend).

maratd 15y ago

> What kind of advantage might this sort of thing have given humans in the past? You're skipping a very important detail in all of this. The gender. A sick man deserves contempt, a sick woman deserves attention and caring. Which explains why most men insist they're fine, even when at the brink of death, while women are incapacitated with the slightest headache. In my experience, women have a tendency of succumbing to periodic ill-feeling. All of it subconscious. This brings the attention of men and family. That constant and consistent caring is habit forming and serves her well in the future when she becomes genuinely sick (or pregnant). There's your evolutionary justification. This seems like an extreme example of the above. Probably a high status female overdid it and the rest of the females were just mimicking her behavior, all of it subconsciously. While human beings are drawn to certain behaviors instinctively, the nuts and bolts of the behavior is learned and passed down culturally. In other words, women may have a predilection toward periodic ill-feeling, but in what manner they express it is up to them ... or in this case, up to the high-status female.

andrewfelix 15y ago
Not sure what anecdotal evidence you're leaning on to prop up that argument. My mother used to work herself to the bone even with a cold.
- ErrantX 15y ago
  Agreed; this is not a gender thing at all. I suffer quite continual pain in my back, and have a bad habit of working through an illness to the point of exhaustion. I know plenty of friends who do the same, rarely complaining. A girl and her brother that I know are constantly ill - and moaning about the smallest thing. So it is a personality issue, I suspect, nothing to do with gender.
- ekianjo 15y ago
  Every rule can have exceptions. I do not know if there is any data to back this up, though. Unless you consider that it seems women seem to visit doctors or medical institutions more much often than men (at least in the countries I know of). That could be an indication of this underlying behavior.

sp332 15y ago

It just sounds like mass anxiety attacks. Everyone is hyper-sensitive of their status in the group and they crank up their sympathy with each other to stay "close". Then you get a feedback loop and everyone goes nuts. Not everything has to be a survival advantage.

stellar678 15y ago

It doesn't need to have conferred advantage on anybody in the past - it could just be our incredibly complex social behaviors having a tendency to misfire in some circumstances.

agilebyte 15y ago

ad evolutionary reason (from Wiki): An evolutionary psychology explanation for this disorder, as well as for conversion disorder more generally, is that the symptom may have been evolutionary advantageous during warfare. A non-combatant with these symptoms signals non-verbally, possibly to someone speaking a different language, that she or he is not dangerous as a combatant and also may be carrying some form of dangerous infectious disease. This can explain that conversion disorder may develop following a threatening situation, that there may be a group effect with many people simultaneously developing similar symptoms, and the gender difference in prevalence.

sp332 15y ago
Interesting... there's a historical passage of the Bible in which David (who'd later be king) pretends to be insane in order to convince people that he's not a threat. So apparently that works. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2021&version=ESV http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Samuel%2021&... (at the bottom)

azernik 15y ago

The way they explained the scientific consensus in the article, this isn't so much a selected-for behavior as a disorder in mechanisms that are generally useful, like chameleon behavior (unconsciously imitating others' mannerisms) and empathetic feeling (which helps in forming social bonds). Evolution doesn't select for diseases, but sometimes it selects for generally-good traits that just happen to be error-prone.