7 ms·

I also don't understand what they expect. That Microsoft bundles google meet? amazon chime? Slack?

justinclift 3y ago
For MS to stop using it's overwhelmingly dominant position on desktops (Office) to take out it's competitors in online communications (Slack, Zoom, etc).
- kwanbix 3y ago
  Are you forced to use it? I certainly don't use it. I was able to remove it from Windows without any problems. You don't like it? you can use Linux or buy a Mac. There are very credible alternatives today. Edge is bundled with Windows and Chrome still has 80% of the market or more. I still don't see the problem.
  - justinclift 3y ago
    What seems to happen in enterprises is they install Office 365... and Teams comes along. A few months later the repeated suggestion of "Why don't you all switch to Teams?" from the MS account rep seems to sink in. At that point the $0 price tag (when bundled with Enterprise 365) gets compared to Slack's fairly expensive per-user pricing... and it's Goodbye Slack. So, the bundle gets it in the door (where no other competitor could) and the free pricing / sales channel gets it adopted.
    - kwanbix 3y ago
      The problem is that Slack wants to charge for a Chat app the same amount that Microsoft or Google charge for Spreadsheet, Documents, Slides, Chat, Drive, etc. The problem is that Slack is too expensive for what they do. If Slacks value proposition was as good as their price ask, that wouldn't happen, or would be much lesser. You said it yourself: Slack is fairly expensive for what they do.
      - justinclift 3y ago
        > You said it yourself: Slack is fairly expensive for what they do. Yep. It's hard to beat $0 and "already installed with O365". Oh, you were wondering why MS is being investigated for anti-trust abuse... perhaps those are something to do with it?
seszett 3y ago
> Slack filed a complaint with the EU in 2020, claiming that Microsoft was "force installing [Teams] for millions, blocking its removal, and hiding the true cost to enterprise customers." I'm pretty sure force installing even more software and blocking removal isn't what they are going for.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  Are you forced to use it? I certainly don't use it. I was able to remove it from Windows without any problems. You don't like it? you can use Linux or buy a Mac. There are very credible alternatives today. Edge is bundled with Windows and Chrome still has 80% of the market or more. I still don't see the problem.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ethbr0 3y ago
      See above.
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    The market for Teams isn't personal use: it's enterprise use. In enterprise, managed-device land, options are severely curtailed.
    - kwanbix 3y ago
      My current company uses Google's Workspace and Google Chat. My previous company used Workspace also, but they used Slack. For my startup, we use Google Workspace, and I would never ever pay the same amount of money I pay for GW to have Slack. The value proposition of Slack is not that valuable to charge what they charge. I would happily pay 1 or 2 euros per month per user, no more. I have never used Teams. Nobody is forcing me to.
Hamuko 3y ago
What if they didn't bundle anything? I installed Windows 11 this week and had to uninstall Teams, Spotify and others. Why are these even being bundled with the OS?
- freilanzer 3y ago
  Much easier for people struggling to install programs in general. Not that that is the real reason, of course.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  So Apple and Google can bundle the sh*t out of iOS and Android, which together have 99% of the cellphone market, but MS is expected to not do it?
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Yes they should both ship their phones with just a terminal and force everyone to ftp all of the applications they need.
  - zokier 3y ago
    Basically, yes. The fact that Apple and Google are still reasonably evenly fighting in the mobile market means that the rules are laxer for them than they are for MS who has far more dominant position in office suites. That is why MS got under fire for IE but Safari got free pass. The degree of market control is critical aspect here.
    - kwanbix 3y ago
      In the last 5 companies that I worked at, all used Google Workspace.
      - zokier 3y ago
        Good for you
manuelabeledo 3y ago
Perhaps not bundling Teams with Office, or make Office products default to Teams, would be a start.

For MS to stop using it's overwhelmingly dominant position on desktops (Office) to take out it's competitors in online communications (Slack, Zoom, etc).

kwanbix 3y ago
Are you forced to use it? I certainly don't use it. I was able to remove it from Windows without any problems. You don't like it? you can use Linux or buy a Mac. There are very credible alternatives today. Edge is bundled with Windows and Chrome still has 80% of the market or more. I still don't see the problem.
- justinclift 3y ago
  What seems to happen in enterprises is they install Office 365... and Teams comes along. A few months later the repeated suggestion of "Why don't you all switch to Teams?" from the MS account rep seems to sink in. At that point the $0 price tag (when bundled with Enterprise 365) gets compared to Slack's fairly expensive per-user pricing... and it's Goodbye Slack. So, the bundle gets it in the door (where no other competitor could) and the free pricing / sales channel gets it adopted.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    The problem is that Slack wants to charge for a Chat app the same amount that Microsoft or Google charge for Spreadsheet, Documents, Slides, Chat, Drive, etc. The problem is that Slack is too expensive for what they do. If Slacks value proposition was as good as their price ask, that wouldn't happen, or would be much lesser. You said it yourself: Slack is fairly expensive for what they do.
    - justinclift 3y ago
      > You said it yourself: Slack is fairly expensive for what they do. Yep. It's hard to beat $0 and "already installed with O365". Oh, you were wondering why MS is being investigated for anti-trust abuse... perhaps those are something to do with it?

seszett 3y ago

> Slack filed a complaint with the EU in 2020, claiming that Microsoft was "force installing [Teams] for millions, blocking its removal, and hiding the true cost to enterprise customers." I'm pretty sure force installing even more software and blocking removal isn't what they are going for.

kwanbix 3y ago
Are you forced to use it? I certainly don't use it. I was able to remove it from Windows without any problems. You don't like it? you can use Linux or buy a Mac. There are very credible alternatives today. Edge is bundled with Windows and Chrome still has 80% of the market or more. I still don't see the problem.
- kwanbix 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    See above.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  The market for Teams isn't personal use: it's enterprise use. In enterprise, managed-device land, options are severely curtailed.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    My current company uses Google's Workspace and Google Chat. My previous company used Workspace also, but they used Slack. For my startup, we use Google Workspace, and I would never ever pay the same amount of money I pay for GW to have Slack. The value proposition of Slack is not that valuable to charge what they charge. I would happily pay 1 or 2 euros per month per user, no more. I have never used Teams. Nobody is forcing me to.

Hamuko 3y ago

What if they didn't bundle anything? I installed Windows 11 this week and had to uninstall Teams, Spotify and others. Why are these even being bundled with the OS?

freilanzer 3y ago
Much easier for people struggling to install programs in general. Not that that is the real reason, of course.
kwanbix 3y ago
So Apple and Google can bundle the sh*t out of iOS and Android, which together have 99% of the cellphone market, but MS is expected to not do it?
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Yes they should both ship their phones with just a terminal and force everyone to ftp all of the applications they need.
- zokier 3y ago
  Basically, yes. The fact that Apple and Google are still reasonably evenly fighting in the mobile market means that the rules are laxer for them than they are for MS who has far more dominant position in office suites. That is why MS got under fire for IE but Safari got free pass. The degree of market control is critical aspect here.
  - kwanbix 3y ago
    In the last 5 companies that I worked at, all used Google Workspace.
    - zokier 3y ago
      Good for you

manuelabeledo 3y ago

Perhaps not bundling Teams with Office, or make Office products default to Teams, would be a start.