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> I fail to see how anyone can claim this is anything but a proxy war. Russia themselves talks about unifying Russia and how "1991" was a tragedy (1991 being w

by _kbh_ 3y ago

> I fail to see how anyone can claim this is anything but a proxy war. Russia themselves talks about unifying Russia and how "1991" was a tragedy (1991 being when Ukraine got its independence) in their victory article that they mistakenly posted shortly after the war started. They don't mention a coup, or NATO or anything else. But don't take my word for it, take theres. https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20... >> Russia is restoring its unity - the tragedy of 1991, this terrible catastrophe of our history, its unnatural dislocation, have been overcome. Yes, at a high price, yes, through the tragic events of the virtual civil war, because now brothers separated by belonging to the Russian and Ukrainian armies are still shooting at each other - but Ukraine will no longer be anti-Russia. Russia is restoring its historical fullness by gathering the Russian world, the Russian people together - in its entirety of Great Russians, Belarusians and Little Russians. If we had abandoned this, allowed temporary division to gain a foothold for centuries, we would not only betray the memory of our ancestors, but would also be cursed by our descendants - for allowing the collapse of the Russian land.

lowkey 3y ago
I can see that you have studied this subject so I'm sure you can agree the real reasons here are multiple, complex and nuanced. They didn't invade for a single reason. Reality is more complicated. The Russians also went to the UN in 2022 with evidence claiming the US was funding multiple bioweapons labs across Ukraine - a claim that the west laughed off at the time but the US later begrudgingly admitted to having funded 46 such labs in Ukraine, over fears they would fall into Russian hands - calling them simply biolabs. RFK Jr actually alluded to this on video in the exchange that led to the NY Post and NY Times articles mentioned up thread. [0][1][2][3][4][5] Again, the first casualty in war is the truth - applies to both sides While Russia may have justified the invasion as restoring its unity, particularly regarding Russian-speaking Donbass and Crimea regions. It is clear that they also felt threatened by the prospect of hostile forces equipped with nuclear capable armaments and potential bio-weapons on their border only 450kms (280 miles) from their capital. The simplistic US=100% Good, Russia=100% Evil rhetoric must stop. It is leading us towards WWIII. A negotiated peace and de-escalation plan is the only sane path forward for humanity. We need to stop feeding the war machine and start genuinely seeking diplomatic solutions. [0] https://twitter.com/ANTlWEF/status/1680476815993741312?s=20 https://twitter.com/ANTlWEF/status/1680476815993741312?s=20 [1] https://twitter.com/i_Beth1/status/1671394045996974080?s=20 https://twitter.com/i_Beth1/status/1671394045996974080?s=20 [2] https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202304/14/WS6438b13ea31057c47ebba156.html https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202304/14/WS6438b13ea3105... [3] https://www.globalvillagespace.com/moscow-provides-more-evidence-of-us-biolabs-in-ukraine/ https://www.globalvillagespace.com/moscow-provides-more-evid... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsZ9iv7VKIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsZ9iv7VKIs [5] https://twitter.com/DavidKnestrick/status/1681373441864106000/video/2 https://twitter.com/DavidKnestrick/status/168137344186410600...
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > RFK Jr actually alluded to this on video in the exchange that led to the NY Post and NY Times articles mentioned up thread. Id stop mentioning RFK Jr he actually legitimately reduces the credibility of what you're trying to asert. > While Russia may have justified the invasion as restoring its unity, particularly regarding Russian-speaking Donbass and Crimea regions. It is clear that they also felt threatened by the prospect of hostile forces equipped with nuclear capable armaments and potential bio-weapons on their border only 450kms (280 miles) from their capital. So why is this never mentioned in their victory article? they only never mention the way worse justification or absorbing Ukraine into Russia as part of it. > The simplistic US=100% Good, Russia=100% Evil rhetoric must stop. It is leading us towards WWIII. A negotiated peace and de-escalation plan is the only sane path forward for humanity. We need to stop feeding the war machine and start genuinely seeking diplomatic solutions. A negotiated peace is possible and quite easy, Russia leaves all of Ukraine and retreats to its 1991 border and never comes back. Here's the problem, Russia doesn't want peace they want to claim parts of Ukraine and conquer the country as whole.
- lowkey 3y ago
  (responding to the sister comment) "Id stop mentioning RFK Jr he actually legitimately reduces the credibility of what you're trying to asert." If it wasn't already clear, I support RFK Jr and hold his foreign policy in high regard. I also deeply respect his principled approach to telling American voters the truth. Uncomfortable truths are often unpopular at first, but being genuine is an important part of healing the divide. I hold those who are willing to speak uncomfortable truths in high regard and I suspect many others do as well. "So why is this never mentioned in their victory article? they only never mention the way worse justification or absorbing Ukraine into Russia as part of it." I can't speak for Russian leadership as I don't claim to know their motives or intent. Might it be possible, as is verifiably true in the case of the US funded bio-labs as well as the nuclear-capable Stinger missiles, that they did raise these issues, but our captured western media failed to report it? Have you read any Russian media accounts, or only what comes filtered through western media? Notably, all Russian media was banned in the west at the start of this war. What we call Russian propaganda, they call news - and vice versa. "A negotiated peace is possible and quite easy, Russia leaves all of Ukraine and retreats to its 1991 border and never comes back." I notice that you didn't mention any concessions from either the Ukraine or NATO. I don't see how Russia agreeing to the unilateral terms you outlined would satisfy their concerns over the potential of a NATO aligned state on their border so close to their capital. How do you see this negotiating strategy playing out? Why would Russia concede? Are they running out of ammunition? According to Biden, we certainly are or else we wouldn't be sending cluster munitions as a last resort. "Here's the problem, Russia doesn't want peace they want to claim parts of Ukraine and conquer the country as whole." It seems you believe you know their motivations better than I do. However, the best way to find out would be to call for a cease-fire and to get both sides back to the negotiating table so we can find a way forward via diplomacy instead of an endless unwinnable war.

by _kbh_ 3y ago

lowkey 3y ago

I can see that you have studied this subject so I'm sure you can agree the real reasons here are multiple, complex and nuanced. They didn't invade for a single reason. Reality is more complicated. The Russians also went to the UN in 2022 with evidence claiming the US was funding multiple bioweapons labs across Ukraine - a claim that the west laughed off at the time but the US later begrudgingly admitted to having funded 46 such labs in Ukraine, over fears they would fall into Russian hands - calling them simply biolabs. RFK Jr actually alluded to this on video in the exchange that led to the NY Post and NY Times articles mentioned up thread. [0][1][2][3][4][5] Again, the first casualty in war is the truth - applies to both sides While Russia may have justified the invasion as restoring its unity, particularly regarding Russian-speaking Donbass and Crimea regions. It is clear that they also felt threatened by the prospect of hostile forces equipped with nuclear capable armaments and potential bio-weapons on their border only 450kms (280 miles) from their capital. The simplistic US=100% Good, Russia=100% Evil rhetoric must stop. It is leading us towards WWIII. A negotiated peace and de-escalation plan is the only sane path forward for humanity. We need to stop feeding the war machine and start genuinely seeking diplomatic solutions. [0] https://twitter.com/ANTlWEF/status/1680476815993741312?s=20 https://twitter.com/ANTlWEF/status/1680476815993741312?s=20 [1] https://twitter.com/i_Beth1/status/1671394045996974080?s=20 https://twitter.com/i_Beth1/status/1671394045996974080?s=20 [2] https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202304/14/WS6438b13ea31057c47ebba156.html https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202304/14/WS6438b13ea3105... [3] https://www.globalvillagespace.com/moscow-provides-more-evidence-of-us-biolabs-in-ukraine/ https://www.globalvillagespace.com/moscow-provides-more-evid... [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsZ9iv7VKIs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsZ9iv7VKIs [5] https://twitter.com/DavidKnestrick/status/1681373441864106000/video/2 https://twitter.com/DavidKnestrick/status/168137344186410600...

_kbh_ 3y ago
> RFK Jr actually alluded to this on video in the exchange that led to the NY Post and NY Times articles mentioned up thread. Id stop mentioning RFK Jr he actually legitimately reduces the credibility of what you're trying to asert. > While Russia may have justified the invasion as restoring its unity, particularly regarding Russian-speaking Donbass and Crimea regions. It is clear that they also felt threatened by the prospect of hostile forces equipped with nuclear capable armaments and potential bio-weapons on their border only 450kms (280 miles) from their capital. So why is this never mentioned in their victory article? they only never mention the way worse justification or absorbing Ukraine into Russia as part of it. > The simplistic US=100% Good, Russia=100% Evil rhetoric must stop. It is leading us towards WWIII. A negotiated peace and de-escalation plan is the only sane path forward for humanity. We need to stop feeding the war machine and start genuinely seeking diplomatic solutions. A negotiated peace is possible and quite easy, Russia leaves all of Ukraine and retreats to its 1991 border and never comes back. Here's the problem, Russia doesn't want peace they want to claim parts of Ukraine and conquer the country as whole.
lowkey 3y ago
(responding to the sister comment) "Id stop mentioning RFK Jr he actually legitimately reduces the credibility of what you're trying to asert." If it wasn't already clear, I support RFK Jr and hold his foreign policy in high regard. I also deeply respect his principled approach to telling American voters the truth. Uncomfortable truths are often unpopular at first, but being genuine is an important part of healing the divide. I hold those who are willing to speak uncomfortable truths in high regard and I suspect many others do as well. "So why is this never mentioned in their victory article? they only never mention the way worse justification or absorbing Ukraine into Russia as part of it." I can't speak for Russian leadership as I don't claim to know their motives or intent. Might it be possible, as is verifiably true in the case of the US funded bio-labs as well as the nuclear-capable Stinger missiles, that they did raise these issues, but our captured western media failed to report it? Have you read any Russian media accounts, or only what comes filtered through western media? Notably, all Russian media was banned in the west at the start of this war. What we call Russian propaganda, they call news - and vice versa. "A negotiated peace is possible and quite easy, Russia leaves all of Ukraine and retreats to its 1991 border and never comes back." I notice that you didn't mention any concessions from either the Ukraine or NATO. I don't see how Russia agreeing to the unilateral terms you outlined would satisfy their concerns over the potential of a NATO aligned state on their border so close to their capital. How do you see this negotiating strategy playing out? Why would Russia concede? Are they running out of ammunition? According to Biden, we certainly are or else we wouldn't be sending cluster munitions as a last resort. "Here's the problem, Russia doesn't want peace they want to claim parts of Ukraine and conquer the country as whole." It seems you believe you know their motivations better than I do. However, the best way to find out would be to call for a cease-fire and to get both sides back to the negotiating table so we can find a way forward via diplomacy instead of an endless unwinnable war.