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I believe in some conditions fat and/or protein can be used to restore glycogen via Gluconeogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis https://en.wik

I believe in some conditions fat and/or protein can be used to restore glycogen via Gluconeogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis I remember reading that for keto diets it's important to not eat too much protein, otherwise the excess protein may be converted to glucose, replenishing glycogen and knocking you out of ketosis.

Blackthorn 3y ago
Gluconeogenesis can't really turn fat into glucose, humans lack a key enzyme for that.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  This is not accurate. If that were true people who fasted would die after about 3 days, but of course, the longest fast lasted about 350 days. The reality is after 3 days of fasting, your blood glucose level stabilizes. Your body must perform gluconeogenesis to survive because a few types of tissue require glucose to live - those without mitochondria. This means red blood cells and about 30% of the energy requirements of your brain. Pathway is here if you're curious. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis
  - Blackthorn 3y ago
    There's the glycerol part of the fat, sure. But your body can make glucose from a lot more stuff. Namely, proteins.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      I think when people say "fat" they mean triglycerides - not free fatty acids - which includes the glycerol backbone. So it's not right to say that humans can't turn fat into sugar, they can. Per the wikipedia article 90% of gluconeogenesis happens from lactate, glycerol, alanine and glutamate.
      - Blackthorn 3y ago
        Yeah, fair enough. That'll maybe teach me to not type abbreviated nonsense on my phone.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - Aerroon 3y ago
        >Per the wikipedia article 90% of gluconeogenesis happens from lactate, glycerol, alanine and glutamate. That's interesting! Glutamine vs glutamate ratio is supposedly something that affects motivation.[0] I wonder if (enough) gluconeogenesis thus boosts motivation? [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6
        wuiheerfoj 3y ago
        Is there an obvious way to modify that ratio?
        Aerroon 3y ago
        The "word on the street" is that oral glutamine supplementation works for this purpose. My personal experience agrees with this (but the effect probably isn't very large). In the morning I mix a tablespoon of glutamine into a glass of water and drink it. You can buy glutamine in supermarkets next to all the other protein supplements (glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the body). It's also helpful to your immune system. --- That being said, that's 'hearsay'. I am not aware of any studies that show that oral supplementation of glutamine improves motivation. That might just be due to time though. The original study showing that glutamine-to-glutamate ratio in the nuclear accumbens affects motivation was published in 2020.[0] We do know that glutamine does pass the blood brain barrier.[1] There's probably a decent chance that oral supplementation of glutamine works. Some downsides: it can make seizures worse. There's some worry about it having some effect on cancer, although that seems to be mixed - some seem to think it would increase the risk of cancer, others say it decreases it (cancer cells use glutamine as fuel). [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6 [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12933350/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12933350/
    - dbcooper 3y ago
      Protein gluconeogenesis is difficult and relatively minor in quantity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636601/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636601/
      - Blackthorn 3y ago
        That's not what that study says. That study is about dietary protein.
dawnerd 3y ago
From personal experience you’d have to eat a LOT of protein to kick you out. I do a pretty high protein keto diet and it works great. What really gets people is all the keto blogs talk about eating lots of fat. That great if you are doing keto for a lifestyle choice but if you’re doing it for weight loss you already have the fat and don’t need to boost your intake. Eating a fraction of the suggested macros still maintains satiety.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Blackthorn 3y ago

Gluconeogenesis can't really turn fat into glucose, humans lack a key enzyme for that.

arcticbull 3y ago
This is not accurate. If that were true people who fasted would die after about 3 days, but of course, the longest fast lasted about 350 days. The reality is after 3 days of fasting, your blood glucose level stabilizes. Your body must perform gluconeogenesis to survive because a few types of tissue require glucose to live - those without mitochondria. This means red blood cells and about 30% of the energy requirements of your brain. Pathway is here if you're curious. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis
- Blackthorn 3y ago
  There's the glycerol part of the fat, sure. But your body can make glucose from a lot more stuff. Namely, proteins.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    I think when people say "fat" they mean triglycerides - not free fatty acids - which includes the glycerol backbone. So it's not right to say that humans can't turn fat into sugar, they can. Per the wikipedia article 90% of gluconeogenesis happens from lactate, glycerol, alanine and glutamate.
    - Blackthorn 3y ago
      Yeah, fair enough. That'll maybe teach me to not type abbreviated nonsense on my phone.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - Aerroon 3y ago
      >Per the wikipedia article 90% of gluconeogenesis happens from lactate, glycerol, alanine and glutamate. That's interesting! Glutamine vs glutamate ratio is supposedly something that affects motivation.[0] I wonder if (enough) gluconeogenesis thus boosts motivation? [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6
      - wuiheerfoj 3y ago
        Is there an obvious way to modify that ratio?
        Aerroon 3y ago
        The "word on the street" is that oral glutamine supplementation works for this purpose. My personal experience agrees with this (but the effect probably isn't very large). In the morning I mix a tablespoon of glutamine into a glass of water and drink it. You can buy glutamine in supermarkets next to all the other protein supplements (glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the body). It's also helpful to your immune system. --- That being said, that's 'hearsay'. I am not aware of any studies that show that oral supplementation of glutamine improves motivation. That might just be due to time though. The original study showing that glutamine-to-glutamate ratio in the nuclear accumbens affects motivation was published in 2020.[0] We do know that glutamine does pass the blood brain barrier.[1] There's probably a decent chance that oral supplementation of glutamine works. Some downsides: it can make seizures worse. There's some worry about it having some effect on cancer, although that seems to be mixed - some seem to think it would increase the risk of cancer, others say it decreases it (cancer cells use glutamine as fuel). [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41386-020-0760-6 [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12933350/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12933350/
  - dbcooper 3y ago
    Protein gluconeogenesis is difficult and relatively minor in quantity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636601/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3636601/
    - Blackthorn 3y ago
      That's not what that study says. That study is about dietary protein.

dawnerd 3y ago

From personal experience you’d have to eat a LOT of protein to kick you out. I do a pretty high protein keto diet and it works great. What really gets people is all the keto blogs talk about eating lots of fat. That great if you are doing keto for a lifestyle choice but if you’re doing it for weight loss you already have the fat and don’t need to boost your intake. Eating a fraction of the suggested macros still maintains satiety.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]