3 ms·

You realize that's a limitation in the web application right? The web app is a consumer app (B2C) the api is commercial (B2B). They tinker with the B2C app bec

You realize that's a limitation in the web application right? The web app is a consumer app (B2C) the api is commercial (B2B). They tinker with the B2C app because it's already a lossy approximation of using the model between the summarization and system prompt. They cannot mess with the commercial offering willy-nilly: People are building businesses predicated on it behaving a certain way. That's why there are dated version that you can pin to with the API. The web app changes whenever they feel like it.

zo1 3y ago
You keep repeating that. You don't even know if the people commenting to you use the API or the "web app". I use the API and I noticed the same stuff others have.
- BoorishBears 3y ago
  > Have you seen the 25 messages/3 hours limitation for GPT-4? If can't tell if that's about the API or the web app, I don't think you're familiar enough with the subject to speak on it.
  - zo1 3y ago
    I don't need to be familiar with it to see that you're not being genuine in your interpretation of peoples' comments and in the way you're responding to people in this thread. Case in point: your reply to me.
    - BoorishBears 3y ago
      What was I supposed to reply to your factless baseless anecdote with? Millions of dollars in spend from products predicated on the API not randomly changing?
TeMPOraL 3y ago
Arguably, both ChatGPT and API are consumer apps. That includes researchers. Pay as you go, no strings attached, "oh yeah no no, we're not changing anything, follow our CEO on Twitter if you want to know more". That kind of stuff. The actual B2B offering is handled by Microsoft, via Azure OpenAI. Same models, but deployed on Azure - meaning they come with SLA and all the right protocol and compliance stuff, so that your people can negotiate with their people - and if you're willing to spend enough, you'll get the models for yourself. Not the weights, of course: just no training on your inputs, not even retaining inputs for 30 days "because ${legal reasons}" - instead, you can pick and chose, fine-tune and deploy OpenAI models on your own tenant, and basically manage everything except the weights themselves.
- BoorishBears 3y ago
  Maybe arguable if you don't know what consumer apps are? Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI: - It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) - You can't fine tune any models that you can't fine tune on OpenAI, and in fact default access is a subset of what OpenAI offers. - "and if you're willing to spend enough, you'll get the models for yourself" is a bit of nonsense, Azure OpenAI forces everyone to make a "tenant", that's just for VPC stuff to work. Outside of that it's bog standard fine tuning and at most "on your data" which is a wrapper for chunking + vector embeddings - Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI On the contrary, I am using Azure OpenAI daily at work, and I'm explicitly not allowed to use "regular" OpenAI offerings. > It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) It doesn't, at least not for us. > Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. I'm not sure if it's narrower, but it is there and I have a strong suspicion that MS is just trying to extract additional rent from companies that really want to turn the filter off. > Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering. No. Azure OpenAI is for companies that don't play fast and loose with data - their own data, and their customer data. Of course, most companies don't give a damn, but for big enough companies, or those operating in certain industries, there are actual, severe legal consequences for mishandling the data, and such companies don't have the option to just not give a fuck and dance with OpenAI - they need to sign an actual contract with a serious entity that understands regulatory compliance, and how corporations tick. Microsoft is such entity. OpenAI isn't.

zo1 3y ago

You keep repeating that. You don't even know if the people commenting to you use the API or the "web app". I use the API and I noticed the same stuff others have.

BoorishBears 3y ago
> Have you seen the 25 messages/3 hours limitation for GPT-4? If can't tell if that's about the API or the web app, I don't think you're familiar enough with the subject to speak on it.
- zo1 3y ago
  I don't need to be familiar with it to see that you're not being genuine in your interpretation of peoples' comments and in the way you're responding to people in this thread. Case in point: your reply to me.
  - BoorishBears 3y ago
    What was I supposed to reply to your factless baseless anecdote with? Millions of dollars in spend from products predicated on the API not randomly changing?

TeMPOraL 3y ago

Arguably, both ChatGPT and API are consumer apps. That includes researchers. Pay as you go, no strings attached, "oh yeah no no, we're not changing anything, follow our CEO on Twitter if you want to know more". That kind of stuff. The actual B2B offering is handled by Microsoft, via Azure OpenAI. Same models, but deployed on Azure - meaning they come with SLA and all the right protocol and compliance stuff, so that your people can negotiate with their people - and if you're willing to spend enough, you'll get the models for yourself. Not the weights, of course: just no training on your inputs, not even retaining inputs for 30 days "because ${legal reasons}" - instead, you can pick and chose, fine-tune and deploy OpenAI models on your own tenant, and basically manage everything except the weights themselves.

BoorishBears 3y ago
Maybe arguable if you don't know what consumer apps are? Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI: - It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) - You can't fine tune any models that you can't fine tune on OpenAI, and in fact default access is a subset of what OpenAI offers. - "and if you're willing to spend enough, you'll get the models for yourself" is a bit of nonsense, Azure OpenAI forces everyone to make a "tenant", that's just for VPC stuff to work. Outside of that it's bog standard fine tuning and at most "on your data" which is a wrapper for chunking + vector embeddings - Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > Also sounds like you haven't actually used Azure OpenAI On the contrary, I am using Azure OpenAI daily at work, and I'm explicitly not allowed to use "regular" OpenAI offerings. > It has the same 30 day retention for legal reasons unless you manually request (just like OpenAI) It doesn't, at least not for us. > Azure OpenAI has a narrower built in filter that you can't modify without again, a separate request. I'm not sure if it's narrower, but it is there and I have a strong suspicion that MS is just trying to extract additional rent from companies that really want to turn the filter off. > Azure OpenAI overall is mostly for companies that need to signal to other companies that they're using Azure: it's no more commercial than the OpenAI offering. No. Azure OpenAI is for companies that don't play fast and loose with data - their own data, and their customer data. Of course, most companies don't give a damn, but for big enough companies, or those operating in certain industries, there are actual, severe legal consequences for mishandling the data, and such companies don't have the option to just not give a fuck and dance with OpenAI - they need to sign an actual contract with a serious entity that understands regulatory compliance, and how corporations tick. Microsoft is such entity. OpenAI isn't.