4 ms·

This must be the most stereotypical wall street journal writing imaginable. Anything communal or socially minded is evil, and things are bad but they can't be a

This must be the most stereotypical wall street journal writing imaginable. Anything communal or socially minded is evil, and things are bad but they can't be any better, the status quo must go on forever, so keep frowning and give up. Shutting down asking the most basic questions like what is property, what makes something private, and who gets to decide that, only makes things worse. The crazy part was that I was expecting so little, and comedically the WSJ stooped even lower on this one.

lockhouse 3y ago
The problem is always going to be human nature. You will only achieve communal ownership of property by force. This force begets power for a small few and these powerful few will not willingly relinquish their power without force, perpetuating a cycle of misery and suffering. We’ve tried this social experiment at nation scale several times already and it just doesn’t work.
- wutho 3y ago
  You described what we have now. Police power was threatened; now police in many cities intentionally make things worse to push back. The rich were about to lose fiat power so they raised interest rates. Those who can afford it fly all over regardless of the mess for the majority.
- treadmill 3y ago
  > The problem is always going to be human nature. Or maybe human nature can be the greatest asset. If you teach them right. If they have better experiences in early life, without constant competition and stress put on them. If they don't grow up in a capitalist system. If kindness is the default response to your fellow human. > You will only achieve communal ownership of property by force. What makes you think that?
  - TheMode 3y ago
    > If kindness is the default response to your fellow human. You cannot guarantee constant kindness, you will need to answer to violent responses as well, and be sure that it doesn't snowball.
  - lockhouse 3y ago
    Most people will not willingly give up their property to the collective. Particularly those with a lot of property to lose. I don’t own a lot, but I know personally you would be met with armed resistance if you tried to take my property.
    - thewildginger 3y ago
      Is your property usable by someone else, for something else, that it is better suited for? For most people no, not in a meaningful way. Socialists call property that is really only valuable to an individual personal property, whereas right now it's all just property, and no matter what it can be privately owned. Lots of people willingly give up property to a collective. Money is your property, and donating to charity is just that. Church collections basket? Collective. People willingly part ways with property for the collective all the time. People even more often contribute to what is a perceived collective but is an individual.
      - _2z1p 3y ago
        None of that scales up to nation level. It’s been tried and failed dozens of times. Leading to human suffering on calamitous scale. Socialist Utopia is as mythical as Shangri-La, El Dorado, or Atlantis.
jhbadger 3y ago
The thing is every revolution turns out wrong. Yes, even the American Revolution. If we had stayed part of Britain we would have the NHS. Also we would have gotten rid of slavery thirty years earlier.

lockhouse 3y ago

The problem is always going to be human nature. You will only achieve communal ownership of property by force. This force begets power for a small few and these powerful few will not willingly relinquish their power without force, perpetuating a cycle of misery and suffering. We’ve tried this social experiment at nation scale several times already and it just doesn’t work.

wutho 3y ago
You described what we have now. Police power was threatened; now police in many cities intentionally make things worse to push back. The rich were about to lose fiat power so they raised interest rates. Those who can afford it fly all over regardless of the mess for the majority.
treadmill 3y ago
> The problem is always going to be human nature. Or maybe human nature can be the greatest asset. If you teach them right. If they have better experiences in early life, without constant competition and stress put on them. If they don't grow up in a capitalist system. If kindness is the default response to your fellow human. > You will only achieve communal ownership of property by force. What makes you think that?
- TheMode 3y ago
  > If kindness is the default response to your fellow human. You cannot guarantee constant kindness, you will need to answer to violent responses as well, and be sure that it doesn't snowball.
- lockhouse 3y ago
  Most people will not willingly give up their property to the collective. Particularly those with a lot of property to lose. I don’t own a lot, but I know personally you would be met with armed resistance if you tried to take my property.
  - thewildginger 3y ago
    Is your property usable by someone else, for something else, that it is better suited for? For most people no, not in a meaningful way. Socialists call property that is really only valuable to an individual personal property, whereas right now it's all just property, and no matter what it can be privately owned. Lots of people willingly give up property to a collective. Money is your property, and donating to charity is just that. Church collections basket? Collective. People willingly part ways with property for the collective all the time. People even more often contribute to what is a perceived collective but is an individual.
    - _2z1p 3y ago
      None of that scales up to nation level. It’s been tried and failed dozens of times. Leading to human suffering on calamitous scale. Socialist Utopia is as mythical as Shangri-La, El Dorado, or Atlantis.

jhbadger 3y ago

The thing is every revolution turns out wrong. Yes, even the American Revolution. If we had stayed part of Britain we would have the NHS. Also we would have gotten rid of slavery thirty years earlier.