4 ms·

Enigma Crypto Transmission from KPH at 426 KHz and Shortwave

112 points by 7402 3y ago

pajko 3y ago
http://websdr1.sdrutah.org:8901/index1a.html http://websdr1.sdrutah.org:8901/index1a.html might be able to pick up the transmission.
spydum 3y ago
Super cool, like a defcon cipher puzzle over the air.. except they give you the cipher? And the code book? What am I missing, where's the challenge ?
- bigiain 3y ago
  It's not a code breaking challenge I think - it's more a roleplay an enigma operator game with awards for being first operator to complete the task and reveal the message.
- teeray 3y ago
  Their license may prohibit encrypted transmissions. If you publicize the key, it’s just an encoding.
  - dbcurtis 3y ago
    Certainly true for K6KPH on amateur radio frequencies. I wonder if the same is true for commercial circuits on KPH and KFS? Your comment on licensing got me wondering... I wonder what license the operators for KPH and KFS have these days? I guess there is some kind of general commercial radio operator's license now. Long ago, I started studying for a commercial radiotelegraph operator's license, just for the novelty. I got distracted, and then years later when I got interested again I found out that the FCC wasn't giving out commercial telegraph licenses any more.
    - 7402 3y ago
      You need the General Radiotelephone Operator License (https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/commercial-radio-operator-license-program/commercial-0 https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis...). Yes, they are still issued. 20 WPM plain language code test, 16 wpm code group test, plus written exams.
      - dbcurtis 3y ago
        The code exam would be for a commercial telegrah licence though, isn’t it? Did the license become combined somehow?
        7402 3y ago
        Oops. Mistyped. I meant, "General Radiotelegraph Operator License."
  - spydum 3y ago
    Whaaa, I wasn't aware licenses restrict encrypted comms? Does that mean packet radios that transport TLS may require special license?
    - abstractbeliefs 3y ago
      Yes, you cannot use your ham/amateur radio license for that. Amateur radio is supposed to be firmly in the realm of community building to improve the appreciation of the radio spectrum, and to encourage amateurs to explore, experiment, and innovate in the field. Using it simply as a "service" (ie, as a private data link to carry TLS when you're trying to browse without using starbucks wifi) isn't supporting these goals, and can be used to obscure misuse (for example commercial use) of the band when they should be applying for a commercial license.
      - teeray 3y ago
        It’s oddly liberating in a way. Once you get over the initial revulsion of no TLS, to reuse the example, you can build simple protocols that just use a callsign for authentication (that’s just a convenience for the operator too, who must station ID every 10 minutes). It makes it easier to experiment without thinking about security at all, because the assumption hams have is that all conversations are public.
      - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
        As an encryption cheerleader, this discussion (and the earlier one about efforts to allow DRM for OTA TV*) helps me not lose my way. That is to say, I need to remember that the public good is always the goal and not the tools that achieve that. * ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36713037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36713037
      - ianburrell 3y ago
        Also, amateur radio prohibits using radio for services that could be provided by others. Providing internet access for others is probably not allowed even if it wasn't encrypted. Internet access for amateur use is allowed.
  - 7402 3y ago
    KPH is licensed as a commercial coastal radiotelegraph station. (It may be the last one in the US; it is operated by volunteers in the Pt. Reyes National Seashore, part of the US National Park Service.) Encrypted communications are just fine.
  - ianburrell 3y ago
    Also, amateur radio does not allow broadcasts. It sounds like it isn't.
lxbxc 3y ago
[dead]
netsharc 3y ago
Headline made me think it was some new crypto-bro "invention" involving shortwave radio. Sorry for the word "crypto" that its meaning has been corrupted...
- kjs3 3y ago
  Sigh...yes. I have had to resort to saying "cryptography, as in encryption", because if someone says "he's a crypto SME" there's That Guy (virtually always a guy) who wants to hijack whatever is going on to harrass me as to why are we such Luddites that we aren't telling our regulators to pound sand and jump in feet first to whatever the latest Pons...err...sure bet coin opportunity is. "Probably the potential jail time" isn't a deterrent.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  There is Engima crypto coin too. And crypto people have tried to use ham radio, mainly broadcast which aren't allowed.
lxe 3y ago
Wow! I just went to KPH a few months ago. Beautiful surreal place. Looked abandoned from the outside and the doors were locked. Super excited to see this working.
rkagerer 3y ago
I got a chance to try out a real Enigma machine many years ago at an after-hours museum event outside Ottawa at the Diefenbunker. Very cool! It inspired me to make a coding puzzle incorporating the cipher, as well as punch cards for fun. If I manage to dig it up I'll post it.

112 points by 7402 3y ago

http://websdr1.sdrutah.org:8901/index1a.html http://websdr1.sdrutah.org:8901/index1a.html might be able to pick up the transmission.

spydum 3y ago

Super cool, like a defcon cipher puzzle over the air.. except they give you the cipher? And the code book? What am I missing, where's the challenge ?

bigiain 3y ago
It's not a code breaking challenge I think - it's more a roleplay an enigma operator game with awards for being first operator to complete the task and reveal the message.
teeray 3y ago
Their license may prohibit encrypted transmissions. If you publicize the key, it’s just an encoding.
- dbcurtis 3y ago
  Certainly true for K6KPH on amateur radio frequencies. I wonder if the same is true for commercial circuits on KPH and KFS? Your comment on licensing got me wondering... I wonder what license the operators for KPH and KFS have these days? I guess there is some kind of general commercial radio operator's license now. Long ago, I started studying for a commercial radiotelegraph operator's license, just for the novelty. I got distracted, and then years later when I got interested again I found out that the FCC wasn't giving out commercial telegraph licenses any more.
  - 7402 3y ago
    You need the General Radiotelephone Operator License (https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/commercial-radio-operator-license-program/commercial-0 https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-divis...). Yes, they are still issued. 20 WPM plain language code test, 16 wpm code group test, plus written exams.
    - dbcurtis 3y ago
      The code exam would be for a commercial telegrah licence though, isn’t it? Did the license become combined somehow?
      - 7402 3y ago
        Oops. Mistyped. I meant, "General Radiotelegraph Operator License."
- spydum 3y ago
  Whaaa, I wasn't aware licenses restrict encrypted comms? Does that mean packet radios that transport TLS may require special license?
  - abstractbeliefs 3y ago
    Yes, you cannot use your ham/amateur radio license for that. Amateur radio is supposed to be firmly in the realm of community building to improve the appreciation of the radio spectrum, and to encourage amateurs to explore, experiment, and innovate in the field. Using it simply as a "service" (ie, as a private data link to carry TLS when you're trying to browse without using starbucks wifi) isn't supporting these goals, and can be used to obscure misuse (for example commercial use) of the band when they should be applying for a commercial license.
    - teeray 3y ago
      It’s oddly liberating in a way. Once you get over the initial revulsion of no TLS, to reuse the example, you can build simple protocols that just use a callsign for authentication (that’s just a convenience for the operator too, who must station ID every 10 minutes). It makes it easier to experiment without thinking about security at all, because the assumption hams have is that all conversations are public.
    - WarOnPrivacy 3y ago
      As an encryption cheerleader, this discussion (and the earlier one about efforts to allow DRM for OTA TV*) helps me not lose my way. That is to say, I need to remember that the public good is always the goal and not the tools that achieve that. * ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36713037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36713037
    - ianburrell 3y ago
      Also, amateur radio prohibits using radio for services that could be provided by others. Providing internet access for others is probably not allowed even if it wasn't encrypted. Internet access for amateur use is allowed.
- 7402 3y ago
  KPH is licensed as a commercial coastal radiotelegraph station. (It may be the last one in the US; it is operated by volunteers in the Pt. Reyes National Seashore, part of the US National Park Service.) Encrypted communications are just fine.
- ianburrell 3y ago
  Also, amateur radio does not allow broadcasts. It sounds like it isn't.

lxbxc 3y ago

[dead]

netsharc 3y ago

Headline made me think it was some new crypto-bro "invention" involving shortwave radio. Sorry for the word "crypto" that its meaning has been corrupted...

kjs3 3y ago
Sigh...yes. I have had to resort to saying "cryptography, as in encryption", because if someone says "he's a crypto SME" there's That Guy (virtually always a guy) who wants to hijack whatever is going on to harrass me as to why are we such Luddites that we aren't telling our regulators to pound sand and jump in feet first to whatever the latest Pons...err...sure bet coin opportunity is. "Probably the potential jail time" isn't a deterrent.
ianburrell 3y ago
There is Engima crypto coin too. And crypto people have tried to use ham radio, mainly broadcast which aren't allowed.

lxe 3y ago

Wow! I just went to KPH a few months ago. Beautiful surreal place. Looked abandoned from the outside and the doors were locked. Super excited to see this working.

rkagerer 3y ago

I got a chance to try out a real Enigma machine many years ago at an after-hours museum event outside Ottawa at the Diefenbunker. Very cool! It inspired me to make a coding puzzle incorporating the cipher, as well as punch cards for fun. If I manage to dig it up I'll post it.