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I program Java in emacs. I work with many people who do. Of course, it's hard for me to say _objectively_ that I'm productive, but my peers seem happy with my w

I program Java in emacs. I work with many people who do. Of course, it's hard for me to say _objectively_ that I'm productive, but my peers seem happy with my work.

kamaal 15y ago
I think you deserve appreciation for showing such patience and bravery to be programming Java in Emacs. On any other day, if the choice of eclipse or equivalents(IntelliJ etc) is not available it practically makes zero sense to deal with monstrosity and needless complexity Java has with a ordinary text editor. Even if that is Emacs. Emacs is still a text editor. On any given day Java development makes sense only if done on a IDE. And that's nearly every Java programmer works. Exceptions exist, but they only prove the rule. Having said all that, These days eclipse really does 90% of the coding. You job is only to tell eclipse what needs to be auto completed.
- gcp 15y ago
  I'm in a similar position as the grandparent - Java coding in Emacs. For various reasons using a smart Java IDE is a pain in our environment (multilanguage code with Java parts). Emacs just works. Emacs has working autocomplete from Java, especially with Semantic. It's far away from being as smart as something like IntelliJ, but it works well enough. Most functions and arguments you remember after a while. I can type much faster than I can think, so less autocomplete doesn't slow down. In fact, not having to watch if the autocomplete gets it right frees the brain to think ahead more. Maybe it's because I'm used to this. Import statements are one of those things where you have to switch to Google, though.
  - kamaal 15y ago
    I do most of my other stuff Perl/Python and any other stuff apart from Java on Emacs. Some times on Sublime Text 2. I am now planning to shift to ST2. Even on an editor like ST2 which is awesome anyway. You get to see what an editor is designed for. Its supposed to make 'Text' manipulation easy. So that is what it is, after everything. So Emacs with all its power is still a Text editor, albeit a very powerful one. Every time I work on Text editor I focus on reading manuals and understanding stuff no matter which editor that is. But with Java,IntelliJ and Eclipse its different, I just throw in whatever little is there on my mind and just wait for the autocomplete to do the magic. Some of my colleagues go a step far. They just can't write any Java code without an IDE and I see that's the case with nearly every Java programmer I've met so far! Even in interviews. Its sort of like if you are talking of Java development its taken for granted that its is happening on an IDE. You never know, a few days from now the Java language specification my include a IDE specification. According to me tools and languages must enable you think more than you write. Unfortunately in case of Java(and now growingly Python) you just can't work without an IDE.
  - bermanoid 15y ago
    > (multilanguage code with Java parts) Yes, this is often a good use case for avoiding tools like Eclipse (IntelliJ is somewhat better), sometimes the multi-language pain is just too great. Especially if you already have to set up a complicated build by hand and interact with several other systems, the IDE can no longer gain you very much. For pure Java, though...I don't know. I use Emacs all the time for other stuff, but I just feel so naked when coding Java within it (I've tried a few times, but always end up going back), maybe I'm just too used to all the help I get from IntelliJ...
- aboodman 15y ago
  I prefer it. I have experience working in good IDEs. For many years I did .NET development, and Visual Studio is very, very good. However, over time I realized that even with all their awesome features, powerful IDEs were a net-loss to my productivity. They work best from a single machine and that made me a lot less likely to work remotely (I have done my best work in the middle of the night, from home). Their less responsive UIs made it easier for me to get distracted. Their slow startup times exacerbated my natural proclivity to procrastinate. I realized: My working memory is fine for most projects, and emacs' text-based autocomplete fills in the rest. All I'm saying is: don't assume that the way you work, the tools you prefer, or the tradeoffs you make are universal. There are a lot of programmers out there, and a whole lot of tools. (If you really care, I have an interview about my setup here: http://aaron.boodman.usesthis.com/ http://aaron.boodman.usesthis.com/)
bermanoid 15y ago
I never said you couldn't be productive, I'm sure you could be - I really don't mean to imply that there's something wrong with choosing to use a text editor for Java, in fact I have quite a bit of respect for anyone that can do it without going nuts! I just think that it's a good sign that you can tolerate a lot of pain. :)

I program Java in emacs. I work with many people who do. Of course, it's hard for me to say _objectively_ that I'm productive, but my peers seem happy with my work.

kamaal 15y ago

I think you deserve appreciation for showing such patience and bravery to be programming Java in Emacs. On any other day, if the choice of eclipse or equivalents(IntelliJ etc) is not available it practically makes zero sense to deal with monstrosity and needless complexity Java has with a ordinary text editor. Even if that is Emacs. Emacs is still a text editor. On any given day Java development makes sense only if done on a IDE. And that's nearly every Java programmer works. Exceptions exist, but they only prove the rule. Having said all that, These days eclipse really does 90% of the coding. You job is only to tell eclipse what needs to be auto completed.

gcp 15y ago
I'm in a similar position as the grandparent - Java coding in Emacs. For various reasons using a smart Java IDE is a pain in our environment (multilanguage code with Java parts). Emacs just works. Emacs has working autocomplete from Java, especially with Semantic. It's far away from being as smart as something like IntelliJ, but it works well enough. Most functions and arguments you remember after a while. I can type much faster than I can think, so less autocomplete doesn't slow down. In fact, not having to watch if the autocomplete gets it right frees the brain to think ahead more. Maybe it's because I'm used to this. Import statements are one of those things where you have to switch to Google, though.
- kamaal 15y ago
  I do most of my other stuff Perl/Python and any other stuff apart from Java on Emacs. Some times on Sublime Text 2. I am now planning to shift to ST2. Even on an editor like ST2 which is awesome anyway. You get to see what an editor is designed for. Its supposed to make 'Text' manipulation easy. So that is what it is, after everything. So Emacs with all its power is still a Text editor, albeit a very powerful one. Every time I work on Text editor I focus on reading manuals and understanding stuff no matter which editor that is. But with Java,IntelliJ and Eclipse its different, I just throw in whatever little is there on my mind and just wait for the autocomplete to do the magic. Some of my colleagues go a step far. They just can't write any Java code without an IDE and I see that's the case with nearly every Java programmer I've met so far! Even in interviews. Its sort of like if you are talking of Java development its taken for granted that its is happening on an IDE. You never know, a few days from now the Java language specification my include a IDE specification. According to me tools and languages must enable you think more than you write. Unfortunately in case of Java(and now growingly Python) you just can't work without an IDE.
- bermanoid 15y ago
  > (multilanguage code with Java parts) Yes, this is often a good use case for avoiding tools like Eclipse (IntelliJ is somewhat better), sometimes the multi-language pain is just too great. Especially if you already have to set up a complicated build by hand and interact with several other systems, the IDE can no longer gain you very much. For pure Java, though...I don't know. I use Emacs all the time for other stuff, but I just feel so naked when coding Java within it (I've tried a few times, but always end up going back), maybe I'm just too used to all the help I get from IntelliJ...
aboodman 15y ago
I prefer it. I have experience working in good IDEs. For many years I did .NET development, and Visual Studio is very, very good. However, over time I realized that even with all their awesome features, powerful IDEs were a net-loss to my productivity. They work best from a single machine and that made me a lot less likely to work remotely (I have done my best work in the middle of the night, from home). Their less responsive UIs made it easier for me to get distracted. Their slow startup times exacerbated my natural proclivity to procrastinate. I realized: My working memory is fine for most projects, and emacs' text-based autocomplete fills in the rest. All I'm saying is: don't assume that the way you work, the tools you prefer, or the tradeoffs you make are universal. There are a lot of programmers out there, and a whole lot of tools. (If you really care, I have an interview about my setup here: http://aaron.boodman.usesthis.com/ http://aaron.boodman.usesthis.com/)

bermanoid 15y ago

I never said you couldn't be productive, I'm sure you could be - I really don't mean to imply that there's something wrong with choosing to use a text editor for Java, in fact I have quite a bit of respect for anyone that can do it without going nuts! I just think that it's a good sign that you can tolerate a lot of pain. :)