7 ms·

Lengthen the school _year_ sure, but I'm skeptical that lengthening the school _day_ won't have, at best, mixed effects, especially given all the studies on sle

Lengthen the school _year_ sure, but I'm skeptical that lengthening the school _day_ won't have, at best, mixed effects, especially given all the studies on sleep etc.

djbusby 3y ago
Start at 10am, go till 4pm?
- CydeWeys 3y ago
  Hell, start at 10am go to 6pm. That's still less than 8 hours of instruction considering there's lunch, gym/recess, etc.
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    This really should vary with grade. It's hard to keep a 6 year old's attention for almost 8 hours. Far more possible in High School.
    - ghaff 3y ago
      It's hard to keep my attention for almost 8 hours. And generally a lot less and that's with coffee and generally being able to get up and stretch my legs. And, while the situation is much different, I've become a fan of shorter presentations, meetings, etc. ADDED: I often think I couldn't handle high school today.
      - bamfly 3y ago
        Looking back on high school, no wonder I was so damn bad at it and hated it so much. And depressed all the time. And probably picked up SAD that took me a decade beyond it to shake. I'd quit a job as soon as I could find another, if it demanded of me what high school did. Hell, I'd quit based on the consistent 10+ hour days and constant due-tomorrow deadlines, let alone the rest of it like the before-the-sun's-up start time, having to ask permission to go take a piss, sitting in crappy chairs in bad lighting for back-to-back ~hour blocks all day, and having to keep "working" indefinitely with people who won't stop being shitheads in ways that'd get them fired from most any job inside a week. It's insanely terrible. Like, there are multiple bad things about it that I've never had to tolerate in such abundance and variety even in low-skilled jobs I've held. WTF. College and adult life are so much more chill than high school. It was a real shock, leaving there for the wider world. So glad the people who were like "this [shitty thing] is to prepare you for the real world, which is way harder and less forgiving!" or "enjoy it, because this is the best time of your life" were entirely wrong. I'd probably have offed myself by now, if they'd been right. Four years was barely tolerable—a lifetime of that, or worse? No, thanks.
        ghaff 3y ago
        Unfortunately for a lot of people work is probably a lot more like high school than we might wish. But, yeah, in college I mostly attended class, some I genuinely enjoyed more than others, spent a lot of time on extracurricular activities/sports which is where I generally formed lifelong friendships (and developed a lot of the skills I use day to day)--and squeaked through. And, as the alumni donations person I've been a friend of for almost 40 years who works for $SCHOOL likes to remind me, I've done well and $SCHOOL taught me a lot in general. And I've had a good career. Luck has played a role.
        zztop44 3y ago
        Glad you found your place. High school wasn’t quite as bad for me but I was constantly sick and battled migraines that stopped as soon as I left. Now I work hard, work long hours, but I’m happy and feel healthy and strong. It’s very different.
        VK538FY 3y ago
        I thought that I was the only one to feel this way! Not anymore.
        johnnyanmac 3y ago
        High school's only benefit is a pseudo-forced social climate and not needing to compete for classes like you're buying concert tickets (the number of classes I was waitlisted for despite signing up the day of...). Everything else is much worse for how I think. I don't get to choose how to time my schedule, the curriculum is mostly fixed (you would always have math/english/history, some language for 3/4 years. You only choose an elective and maybe 1 year of science) and homework tended to stack up constantly because every class was 1 hour M-F. And yea, as you mentioned it's absurd having 1 day due homework spring up when you may or may not be preparing for some other project, or test, or even competition. You also were much more pressured against taking time to yourself. You can skip a class or take a sick day in "the real world" if you need a break or emergencies come up. those "perfect attendence" rewards were the worst grift of the education system.
    - CydeWeys 3y ago
      School for 6 year olds involves a lot of social recess time and playing with friends. 8 hours in total is not an unusual amount of time. But as far as instructional time goes, yes, it benefits older kids more.
- cobbaut 3y ago
  European here, I went to school from 8:20 till 16:05. You guys really have school starting at 10:00? Who takes care of the kids after parents go to work and before school starts?
  - jdale27 3y ago
    No; the comment you replied to sounded like a suggestion, not a description of reality. In the US, it's common for schools to start at 8:00 or even 7:30. Recently there has been a push to start later to give kids more time to sleep. So pushing it back to say 8:30 or 9:00 (but not shortening the day, so basically everything just gets pushed back, and the kids stay up later, and need more time to sleep...).
    - cobbaut 3y ago
      Thanks.
    - pwthornton 3y ago
      My high school started somewhere around 7:22. I got up at 5:45 in high school. Just nuts. I get up for my joby job as an executive at 7:15.
      - Ichthypresbyter 3y ago
        In general in the US I think high schools start and finish earliest, then middle schools, then elementary schools. The reason is purely practical- start times need to be staggered to allow schools to share buses, and having high school students get home first means they can look after their younger siblings until their parents get home from work.
        Izkata 3y ago
        Mine was: Elementary school, 8am - 2pm Middle school, 9am - 3 something (3:20pm, I think?) High school, 7:40am - 2:55pm
    - 3y ago
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  Most school districts want to have students home before the evening rush "hour" starts. Mixing school buses and parent pickups with peak afternoon traffic is something they absolutely want to avoid.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  Pretty sure that's a shorter day than when I was in school. Though, I wouldn't have complained about a 10am start time.
mfer 3y ago
Kids need time to free roam and just be. Always being fed more information in controlled environments is not good for the psyche or their creativity.
DropInIn 3y ago
Even better idea: Kids just work at thier own pace and don't graduate until they complete all work successfully. Anything else is just a diploma mill.
- red-iron-pine 3y ago
  who is going to fund that? it's not just education its subsidized day care, and "it gets done when it gets done" is going to either result in a lot of 20 year old Seniors -- who are still on taxpayer funded schooling -- or else the bar gets lowered to push these kids through fast albeit at their own fast pace.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    And how is your worst case scenario worse? Because the bar is already as low as it will go and instead of just leaving some behind we are actively holding a whole bunch back. I could have graduated by 12 if they just let me go at the material, instead they had me drop out, in frustration at being forced to work at the pace of the stupidest and laziest, before returning to do exactly what I describe through an alternative education program which cost the system 5x as much per student as main track... and that without addressing that it would likely be cheaper due to fundamentally fewer teachers required per student as the teacher wouldn't be babysitting study hall like they are now but instead focused exclusively on the acts of teaching and grading.
    - sfn42 3y ago
      I'm not sure I agree with your solution but I agree with he problem. No child left behind is idiotic. Some kids are just stupid, put them to work digging ditches or something. No point wasting a ton of manpower and stuff trying to teach them basic algebra, they'll never use it for anything anyway.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  If school wasn't also an important social benchmark that would make sense. But as it is, there is some benefit to setting a pace. I do agree that we should encourage students to self pace themselves. Another aspect of school I had to de-program myself on: it's OKAY to repeat courses you are struggling on. Expensive, yes, but sometimes coming in a 2nd time gives you the perspective to start focus on the subtleties while you were struggling with the high level details the first time.

Lengthen the school _year_ sure, but I'm skeptical that lengthening the school _day_ won't have, at best, mixed effects, especially given all the studies on sleep etc.

djbusby 3y ago

Start at 10am, go till 4pm?

CydeWeys 3y ago
Hell, start at 10am go to 6pm. That's still less than 8 hours of instruction considering there's lunch, gym/recess, etc.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  This really should vary with grade. It's hard to keep a 6 year old's attention for almost 8 hours. Far more possible in High School.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    It's hard to keep my attention for almost 8 hours. And generally a lot less and that's with coffee and generally being able to get up and stretch my legs. And, while the situation is much different, I've become a fan of shorter presentations, meetings, etc. ADDED: I often think I couldn't handle high school today.
    - bamfly 3y ago
      Looking back on high school, no wonder I was so damn bad at it and hated it so much. And depressed all the time. And probably picked up SAD that took me a decade beyond it to shake. I'd quit a job as soon as I could find another, if it demanded of me what high school did. Hell, I'd quit based on the consistent 10+ hour days and constant due-tomorrow deadlines, let alone the rest of it like the before-the-sun's-up start time, having to ask permission to go take a piss, sitting in crappy chairs in bad lighting for back-to-back ~hour blocks all day, and having to keep "working" indefinitely with people who won't stop being shitheads in ways that'd get them fired from most any job inside a week. It's insanely terrible. Like, there are multiple bad things about it that I've never had to tolerate in such abundance and variety even in low-skilled jobs I've held. WTF. College and adult life are so much more chill than high school. It was a real shock, leaving there for the wider world. So glad the people who were like "this [shitty thing] is to prepare you for the real world, which is way harder and less forgiving!" or "enjoy it, because this is the best time of your life" were entirely wrong. I'd probably have offed myself by now, if they'd been right. Four years was barely tolerable—a lifetime of that, or worse? No, thanks.
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Unfortunately for a lot of people work is probably a lot more like high school than we might wish. But, yeah, in college I mostly attended class, some I genuinely enjoyed more than others, spent a lot of time on extracurricular activities/sports which is where I generally formed lifelong friendships (and developed a lot of the skills I use day to day)--and squeaked through. And, as the alumni donations person I've been a friend of for almost 40 years who works for $SCHOOL likes to remind me, I've done well and $SCHOOL taught me a lot in general. And I've had a good career. Luck has played a role.
      - zztop44 3y ago
        Glad you found your place. High school wasn’t quite as bad for me but I was constantly sick and battled migraines that stopped as soon as I left. Now I work hard, work long hours, but I’m happy and feel healthy and strong. It’s very different.
      - VK538FY 3y ago
        I thought that I was the only one to feel this way! Not anymore.
      - johnnyanmac 3y ago
        High school's only benefit is a pseudo-forced social climate and not needing to compete for classes like you're buying concert tickets (the number of classes I was waitlisted for despite signing up the day of...). Everything else is much worse for how I think. I don't get to choose how to time my schedule, the curriculum is mostly fixed (you would always have math/english/history, some language for 3/4 years. You only choose an elective and maybe 1 year of science) and homework tended to stack up constantly because every class was 1 hour M-F. And yea, as you mentioned it's absurd having 1 day due homework spring up when you may or may not be preparing for some other project, or test, or even competition. You also were much more pressured against taking time to yourself. You can skip a class or take a sick day in "the real world" if you need a break or emergencies come up. those "perfect attendence" rewards were the worst grift of the education system.
  - CydeWeys 3y ago
    School for 6 year olds involves a lot of social recess time and playing with friends. 8 hours in total is not an unusual amount of time. But as far as instructional time goes, yes, it benefits older kids more.
cobbaut 3y ago
European here, I went to school from 8:20 till 16:05. You guys really have school starting at 10:00? Who takes care of the kids after parents go to work and before school starts?
- jdale27 3y ago
  No; the comment you replied to sounded like a suggestion, not a description of reality. In the US, it's common for schools to start at 8:00 or even 7:30. Recently there has been a push to start later to give kids more time to sleep. So pushing it back to say 8:30 or 9:00 (but not shortening the day, so basically everything just gets pushed back, and the kids stay up later, and need more time to sleep...).
  - cobbaut 3y ago
    Thanks.
  - pwthornton 3y ago
    My high school started somewhere around 7:22. I got up at 5:45 in high school. Just nuts. I get up for my joby job as an executive at 7:15.
    - Ichthypresbyter 3y ago
      In general in the US I think high schools start and finish earliest, then middle schools, then elementary schools. The reason is purely practical- start times need to be staggered to allow schools to share buses, and having high school students get home first means they can look after their younger siblings until their parents get home from work.
      - Izkata 3y ago
        Mine was: Elementary school, 8am - 2pm Middle school, 9am - 3 something (3:20pm, I think?) High school, 7:40am - 2:55pm
  - 3y ago
Mountain_Skies 3y ago
Most school districts want to have students home before the evening rush "hour" starts. Mixing school buses and parent pickups with peak afternoon traffic is something they absolutely want to avoid.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
Pretty sure that's a shorter day than when I was in school. Though, I wouldn't have complained about a 10am start time.

mfer 3y ago

Kids need time to free roam and just be. Always being fed more information in controlled environments is not good for the psyche or their creativity.

DropInIn 3y ago

Even better idea: Kids just work at thier own pace and don't graduate until they complete all work successfully. Anything else is just a diploma mill.

red-iron-pine 3y ago
who is going to fund that? it's not just education its subsidized day care, and "it gets done when it gets done" is going to either result in a lot of 20 year old Seniors -- who are still on taxpayer funded schooling -- or else the bar gets lowered to push these kids through fast albeit at their own fast pace.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  And how is your worst case scenario worse? Because the bar is already as low as it will go and instead of just leaving some behind we are actively holding a whole bunch back. I could have graduated by 12 if they just let me go at the material, instead they had me drop out, in frustration at being forced to work at the pace of the stupidest and laziest, before returning to do exactly what I describe through an alternative education program which cost the system 5x as much per student as main track... and that without addressing that it would likely be cheaper due to fundamentally fewer teachers required per student as the teacher wouldn't be babysitting study hall like they are now but instead focused exclusively on the acts of teaching and grading.
  - sfn42 3y ago
    I'm not sure I agree with your solution but I agree with he problem. No child left behind is idiotic. Some kids are just stupid, put them to work digging ditches or something. No point wasting a ton of manpower and stuff trying to teach them basic algebra, they'll never use it for anything anyway.
johnnyanmac 3y ago
If school wasn't also an important social benchmark that would make sense. But as it is, there is some benefit to setting a pace. I do agree that we should encourage students to self pace themselves. Another aspect of school I had to de-program myself on: it's OKAY to repeat courses you are struggling on. Expensive, yes, but sometimes coming in a 2nd time gives you the perspective to start focus on the subtleties while you were struggling with the high level details the first time.