4 ms·

It was you wonder if a foreign state adversary is influencing us to stupify our next generation. I'll keep my comments civil here but its pretty obvious who is

It was you wonder if a foreign state adversary is influencing us to stupify our next generation. I'll keep my comments civil here but its pretty obvious who is behind this.

throwanem 3y ago
If it's all that obvious, you should have no problem naming who's behind this and providing evidence to support your claim, rather than merely fearmongering to no useful end.
- CamperBob2 3y ago
  I don't know. These "equity" arguments are indistinguishable from a deliberate attack.... the sort of attack you'd expect from a country that, having been unable to either compete with the West or conquer it, is well-known to have resorted to memetic warfare.
  - throwanem 3y ago
    > I don't know.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      But you do, it sounds like. Enlighten us.
      - baremetal 3y ago
        That would be way too spicy for this place, Bob.
      - throwanem 3y ago
        I'm not claiming to know anything. I'm just asking that those who do make such claims be a little less gnomic in their commentary, so that the rest of us can evaluate whether or not you're talking nonsense.
        CamperBob2 3y ago
        TIL gnomic. Thanks! And if I knew whether or not it was nonsense, I wouldn't have prefaced the post with "I don't know." I was just suggesting that proxiful-wash's downvoted post wasn't completely out of the question. The priors are suspicious enough: might a country that attempted to get the world to believe that the US created the HIV virus [1], successfully influenced a razor's-edge Presidential election [2], and plotted to stir up domestic racial conflict [3] try to handicap the US by originating and propagating counterproductive educational ideologies? It's certainly believable, but there's no smoking gun. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/jun/14/russian-fake-news-is-not-new-soviet-aids-propaganda-cost-countless-lives https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/jun/14/russian... 2: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-rus... 3: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-documents-reveal-desire-sow-racial-discord-violence-u-s-n1008051 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-documents-reveal-...
        throwanem 3y ago
        You're putting "plotted to" and "successfully" to a lot of work here, on behalf of claims your sources appear at great pains not to make or even imply. You seem to take this whole concept very seriously, so maybe you can help me understand why. Out of the idea that Russians are responsible for all of America's worst problems, what endgame do you see that actually improves our situation? What specific and relevant changes in domestic and foreign policy would you prescribe?
        CamperBob2 3y ago
        Out of the idea that Russians are responsible for all of America's worst problems Translation: "A good-faith discussion is not going to happen, so let's hit the mud and see how dirty we can get." I don't think so. Only one of us would enjoy it.
        throwanem 3y ago
    - linksnapzz 3y ago
      Robert Conquest’s Third Laws of Politics: "The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies."
- dial9-1 3y ago
  [flagged]
glonq 3y ago
Well either the US is especially vulnerable to foreign sabotage or the US is especially vulnerable to self-sabotage. I'll let others debate over which is worse.
- proxiful-wash 3y ago
  Demagoguery is always a constant fear for the free people.
throw10920 3y ago
I don't know if it's "obvious" - the United States has at least two large enemies that have the means, motive, and opportunity to do this - picking between them is difficult. One thing's for sure, though - it's pretty unreasonable to automatically discount the possibility of foreign influence, as others in this thread are doing.

It was you wonder if a foreign state adversary is influencing us to stupify our next generation. I'll keep my comments civil here but its pretty obvious who is behind this.

throwanem 3y ago

If it's all that obvious, you should have no problem naming who's behind this and providing evidence to support your claim, rather than merely fearmongering to no useful end.

CamperBob2 3y ago
I don't know. These "equity" arguments are indistinguishable from a deliberate attack.... the sort of attack you'd expect from a country that, having been unable to either compete with the West or conquer it, is well-known to have resorted to memetic warfare.
- throwanem 3y ago
  > I don't know.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    But you do, it sounds like. Enlighten us.
    - baremetal 3y ago
      That would be way too spicy for this place, Bob.
    - throwanem 3y ago
      I'm not claiming to know anything. I'm just asking that those who do make such claims be a little less gnomic in their commentary, so that the rest of us can evaluate whether or not you're talking nonsense.
      - CamperBob2 3y ago
        TIL gnomic. Thanks! And if I knew whether or not it was nonsense, I wouldn't have prefaced the post with "I don't know." I was just suggesting that proxiful-wash's downvoted post wasn't completely out of the question. The priors are suspicious enough: might a country that attempted to get the world to believe that the US created the HIV virus [1], successfully influenced a razor's-edge Presidential election [2], and plotted to stir up domestic racial conflict [3] try to handicap the US by originating and propagating counterproductive educational ideologies? It's certainly believable, but there's no smoking gun. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/jun/14/russian-fake-news-is-not-new-soviet-aids-propaganda-cost-countless-lives https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/jun/14/russian... 2: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-russia-interfered-in-the-2016-us-election https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/senate-panel-finds-rus... 3: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-documents-reveal-desire-sow-racial-discord-violence-u-s-n1008051 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-documents-reveal-...
        throwanem 3y ago
        You're putting "plotted to" and "successfully" to a lot of work here, on behalf of claims your sources appear at great pains not to make or even imply. You seem to take this whole concept very seriously, so maybe you can help me understand why. Out of the idea that Russians are responsible for all of America's worst problems, what endgame do you see that actually improves our situation? What specific and relevant changes in domestic and foreign policy would you prescribe?
        CamperBob2 3y ago
        Out of the idea that Russians are responsible for all of America's worst problems Translation: "A good-faith discussion is not going to happen, so let's hit the mud and see how dirty we can get." I don't think so. Only one of us would enjoy it.
        throwanem 3y ago
  - linksnapzz 3y ago
    Robert Conquest’s Third Laws of Politics: "The simplest way to explain the behavior of any bureaucratic organization is to assume that it is controlled by a cabal of its enemies."
dial9-1 3y ago
[flagged]

glonq 3y ago

Well either the US is especially vulnerable to foreign sabotage or the US is especially vulnerable to self-sabotage. I'll let others debate over which is worse.

proxiful-wash 3y ago
Demagoguery is always a constant fear for the free people.

throw10920 3y ago

I don't know if it's "obvious" - the United States has at least two large enemies that have the means, motive, and opportunity to do this - picking between them is difficult. One thing's for sure, though - it's pretty unreasonable to automatically discount the possibility of foreign influence, as others in this thread are doing.