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Let me get this straight. We're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? -Bart Simpson People who fall b

Let me get this straight. We're behind the rest of our class and we're going to catch up to them by going slower than they are? -Bart Simpson People who fall behind don't need a slower pace. They need to move faster. That means not just more attention but longer hours. But there is only so much time. A school wanting to maximize its graduation rate needs to spend less energy on teaching people who are good at a subject in order to divert resources to those who need more. That means, counterintuitively, that kids who are good at math should be spending less time on math, not more.

dmitrygr 3y ago
Such a school fails its fast learners. Do you really want fewer scientists in the world?
- sandworm101 3y ago
  What is measured is what gets done. If schools are judged by graduation rates, then yes, fewer scientists but more people graduating highschool. Or we go the other way and judge schools by how many elite scientists they produce. Identify the best students early. Give them everything so that they can all become neuroscientists. Abandon all those who struggle in order to focus resources on the future doctors. Imho a public school should only start diverting resources to elite students once the school has achieved a reasonable graduation rate (90+% imho.)
  - dmitrygr 3y ago
    I can see how that would help with the feelgoods, but how will this advance science and technology? The very things that allow you (and me) to be here pontificating about this instead of sustenance farming.
    - cauch 3y ago
      Apparently, the measure was not to "cancel advanced classes", but to replace advanced algebra by something more challenging, more engaging and developing more the scientific brain of student (in this case, advanced data science). It looks like a lot of people who are screaming at the end of science haven't even realized the problem may just be in their head.
      - slt2021 3y ago
        Blatant lies and False, math curriculum has been dumbed down over the years in the name of equity. In fact, math curriculum has never been made “more complex”, quite the opposite is true. Especially with recent trend of “math is racist”
toast0 3y ago
> That means, counterintuitively, that kids who are good at math should be spending less time on math, not more. Maybe it's the right thing to do, but you're not going to get a lot of support for letting the kids who are good at school go home after an hour. All the students are expected to spend the same amount of time sitting in a math class. Might as well try to have something for them to do other than throw paper airplanes after ten minutes and distract the kids who need the whole hour. Anyway, I suggested 2x the pupils for the fast math class, so that the normal math class got more resources. If you've got smaller schools, it's harder to allocate resources, and that's understandable, but a lot of schools have enough kids to push the ratios around to get more attention to the kids that need it. It's unnecessary for all high school graduates to have taken AP Calc; but it's a waste of students' time for those who could have made it through that not to have had the opportunity. Just like it's a waste of students' time for them to be in classes that are beyond their current level so much that they can't catch up and then just passing them because there's no alternative, so they just zone out. Admittedly, the daycare function of school doesn't really care about wasting students' time, but that's only part of the function of school.
- tremon 3y ago
  All the students are expected to spend the same amount of time sitting in a math class But why? This is a very dysfunctional way of allocating teaching time, especially if the classes are not split along learning ability. What ages are we talking about here? At my school, we didn't even get subject-specific time slots until 13/14 years: before that, we all spent the same time in class but everyone worked on their own subject. The teacher's job was to make sure that every child spent time on each subject according to their needs, not according to alotted time. And after that, when we did get separate classes and separate teachers for the different subjects, only 70% of our school time was scheduled for the whole class; the other 30% was for teacher "open hours": the students were expected to fill that time according to their own needs.
chinchilla2020 3y ago
Unfortunately, many social scientists are pushing the idea that students learn better by having far less hours in school. There is also a lot of sketchy science claiming that homework is detrimental. I think you are correct, but you are pushing against the headwinds of academia.
slt2021 3y ago
Why not everyone do the math at their level of complexity? Good students will learn complex Math, while struggling students will learn Math-I kr something simple. That way everyone feels challenged

dmitrygr 3y ago

Such a school fails its fast learners. Do you really want fewer scientists in the world?

sandworm101 3y ago
What is measured is what gets done. If schools are judged by graduation rates, then yes, fewer scientists but more people graduating highschool. Or we go the other way and judge schools by how many elite scientists they produce. Identify the best students early. Give them everything so that they can all become neuroscientists. Abandon all those who struggle in order to focus resources on the future doctors. Imho a public school should only start diverting resources to elite students once the school has achieved a reasonable graduation rate (90+% imho.)
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  I can see how that would help with the feelgoods, but how will this advance science and technology? The very things that allow you (and me) to be here pontificating about this instead of sustenance farming.
  - cauch 3y ago
    Apparently, the measure was not to "cancel advanced classes", but to replace advanced algebra by something more challenging, more engaging and developing more the scientific brain of student (in this case, advanced data science). It looks like a lot of people who are screaming at the end of science haven't even realized the problem may just be in their head.
    - slt2021 3y ago
      Blatant lies and False, math curriculum has been dumbed down over the years in the name of equity. In fact, math curriculum has never been made “more complex”, quite the opposite is true. Especially with recent trend of “math is racist”

toast0 3y ago

> That means, counterintuitively, that kids who are good at math should be spending less time on math, not more. Maybe it's the right thing to do, but you're not going to get a lot of support for letting the kids who are good at school go home after an hour. All the students are expected to spend the same amount of time sitting in a math class. Might as well try to have something for them to do other than throw paper airplanes after ten minutes and distract the kids who need the whole hour. Anyway, I suggested 2x the pupils for the fast math class, so that the normal math class got more resources. If you've got smaller schools, it's harder to allocate resources, and that's understandable, but a lot of schools have enough kids to push the ratios around to get more attention to the kids that need it. It's unnecessary for all high school graduates to have taken AP Calc; but it's a waste of students' time for those who could have made it through that not to have had the opportunity. Just like it's a waste of students' time for them to be in classes that are beyond their current level so much that they can't catch up and then just passing them because there's no alternative, so they just zone out. Admittedly, the daycare function of school doesn't really care about wasting students' time, but that's only part of the function of school.

tremon 3y ago
All the students are expected to spend the same amount of time sitting in a math class But why? This is a very dysfunctional way of allocating teaching time, especially if the classes are not split along learning ability. What ages are we talking about here? At my school, we didn't even get subject-specific time slots until 13/14 years: before that, we all spent the same time in class but everyone worked on their own subject. The teacher's job was to make sure that every child spent time on each subject according to their needs, not according to alotted time. And after that, when we did get separate classes and separate teachers for the different subjects, only 70% of our school time was scheduled for the whole class; the other 30% was for teacher "open hours": the students were expected to fill that time according to their own needs.

chinchilla2020 3y ago

Unfortunately, many social scientists are pushing the idea that students learn better by having far less hours in school. There is also a lot of sketchy science claiming that homework is detrimental. I think you are correct, but you are pushing against the headwinds of academia.

slt2021 3y ago

Why not everyone do the math at their level of complexity? Good students will learn complex Math, while struggling students will learn Math-I kr something simple. That way everyone feels challenged