5 ms·

> Guess what? Children are educable. If you invest the resources of the state in poor kids and underrepresented minorities, they will learn. It is shocking to

> Guess what? Children are educable. If you invest the resources of the state in poor kids and underrepresented minorities, they will learn. It is shocking to me that this has to be said. What in the world...

avisser 3y ago
Ironically, "educable" is tough for me to get out. It's a very mouth-full-of-marbles word.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  Teachable seems like the more common word that would be used here.
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    "Teachable" has been a bit debased in business-speak/wokespeak. It now refers to a mistake or accident that can be learned from.
1MachineElf 3y ago
It probably needs to be said because of situations like that in Baltimore, Maryland. The city spends more than 97% of what other major school districts spend, and yet it's students are on average some of the worst performers: https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-schools-41-of-high-school-students-earn-below-10-gpa https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-ci...
- eitally 3y ago
  The answer is simple, though. When you invest the money exclusively in the schools and what happens in the schools, your reach is extremely limited. In Baltimore, and everywhere else, raising the minimum wage, offering free daycare & preschool, and improving the social services that prevent many low income kids from learning outside of the school (and parents from supporting them) is what will make the real difference. But, at least half of this country is opposed to spending money on those sorts of things because the "I got mine" attitude is more pervasive than "What's good for my neighbor is what's good for me".
  - gotoeleven 3y ago
    You know they tried all this stuff right?
    - autoexec 3y ago
      Baltimore has free day care? You'd think that'd drive down the average cost of daycare there (which is like $900 a month)
- pessimizer 3y ago
  Baltimore is a segregated, poverty-ridden, drug-addicted city. Try performing at or even caring in the slightest about schoolwork if your parents are uneducated junkies and you haven't eaten for a day or two.
  - localplume 3y ago
    [dead]
- themitigating 3y ago
  You are only taking into account one factor. Is the money being spent well? Do you need more money because of external situations that may affect a child's learning? For example in a poor area with more crime a child may need after school programs, which cost more money, to keep kids out of trouble.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    The big thing is usually old building stock. Urban school districts in the US are disproportionately in old buildings that have high maintenance costs, low efficiency for utilities, and have all sorts of problems that need remediation, like lead or asbestos. There is generally no capex money to replace these buildings, and even if there was, finding a suitable property in an urban area is pretty difficult, since schools are big.
LatteLazy 3y ago
I mean... It's not entirely "true" Some kids are educatable. Some are not. (and this also depends on subject and other factors) That's true across all races, classes etc. I say this because I actually think the biggest issue in education is that we waste resources on kids who are not educable and hold back whole classes for the one kid who refuses. This, and 101 other issues stem from that policy. A big part of what parents get at private schools or schools in nicer neighbourhoods is fewer kids holding the class up. We should be assessing schools on how many kids get As and go to college. Instead we assess schools on how many kids pass or attend. So schools spend their time and energy dragging truants into classes and turning Ds into Cs. Anyone trying hard is just ignored, there is no news story, reward etc for getting a B kid to get an A etc...
- outworlder 3y ago
  > Some kids are educatable. Some are not. Citation needed. Why wouldn't they be, unless there's a disability? I have seen good teachers do wonders for 'problem' kids.
  - csa 3y ago
    > Citation needed. Why wouldn't they be, unless there's a disability? They come from a sub-culture (mostly based on social-economic status) that is aggressively anti-intellectualism. Being bullied, shunned, etc. for being able to do things like read, do “basic” math, and/or speak anything outside of the local vernacular (e.g., something like a more neutral sounding “TV English”) is a thing. This type of research is abundant in the education literature. That said, it is not always presented as straightforwardly as one might expect since it doesn’t match up with certain agendas in the education research and policy worlds.
    - feoren 3y ago
      So if a kid is being bullied for learning to read, the answer is to stop teaching them to read? Is that really your suggestion? And by the way, the statement "Some kids are educatable. Some are not." also comes from a sub-culture that is aggressively anti-intellectual.
goodpoint 3y ago
It does not need to be said. The article is just extremely biased.
- goodpoint 3y ago
  More silent downvotes, congratulations HN.
veave 3y ago
It's not exactly like that. Average IQ is very different between races. That explains many discrepancies. And it also explains these policies that revolve around cutting down the tall poppies.
- feoren 3y ago
  > Average IQ is very different between races Wow, I thought we left this nonsense back in the 1960s. Study after study shows that every additional confounding factor you account for lessens this supposed difference. Nutrition, health, environment, socioeconomic status, cultural attitudes toward learning, implicit bias in the IQ tests themselves, blood lead levels, iodine levels; race is confounded with hundreds of variables. The more of those you hold constant, the less you see any difference in racial averages. I suspect people who still spout this nonsense know this, and/or don't care.

avisser 3y ago

Ironically, "educable" is tough for me to get out. It's a very mouth-full-of-marbles word.

bobthepanda 3y ago
Teachable seems like the more common word that would be used here.
- pessimizer 3y ago
  "Teachable" has been a bit debased in business-speak/wokespeak. It now refers to a mistake or accident that can be learned from.

1MachineElf 3y ago

It probably needs to be said because of situations like that in Baltimore, Maryland. The city spends more than 97% of what other major school districts spend, and yet it's students are on average some of the worst performers: https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-schools-41-of-high-school-students-earn-below-10-gpa https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-ci...

eitally 3y ago
The answer is simple, though. When you invest the money exclusively in the schools and what happens in the schools, your reach is extremely limited. In Baltimore, and everywhere else, raising the minimum wage, offering free daycare & preschool, and improving the social services that prevent many low income kids from learning outside of the school (and parents from supporting them) is what will make the real difference. But, at least half of this country is opposed to spending money on those sorts of things because the "I got mine" attitude is more pervasive than "What's good for my neighbor is what's good for me".
- gotoeleven 3y ago
  You know they tried all this stuff right?
  - autoexec 3y ago
    Baltimore has free day care? You'd think that'd drive down the average cost of daycare there (which is like $900 a month)
pessimizer 3y ago
Baltimore is a segregated, poverty-ridden, drug-addicted city. Try performing at or even caring in the slightest about schoolwork if your parents are uneducated junkies and you haven't eaten for a day or two.
- localplume 3y ago
  [dead]
themitigating 3y ago
You are only taking into account one factor. Is the money being spent well? Do you need more money because of external situations that may affect a child's learning? For example in a poor area with more crime a child may need after school programs, which cost more money, to keep kids out of trouble.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The big thing is usually old building stock. Urban school districts in the US are disproportionately in old buildings that have high maintenance costs, low efficiency for utilities, and have all sorts of problems that need remediation, like lead or asbestos. There is generally no capex money to replace these buildings, and even if there was, finding a suitable property in an urban area is pretty difficult, since schools are big.

LatteLazy 3y ago

I mean... It's not entirely "true" Some kids are educatable. Some are not. (and this also depends on subject and other factors) That's true across all races, classes etc. I say this because I actually think the biggest issue in education is that we waste resources on kids who are not educable and hold back whole classes for the one kid who refuses. This, and 101 other issues stem from that policy. A big part of what parents get at private schools or schools in nicer neighbourhoods is fewer kids holding the class up. We should be assessing schools on how many kids get As and go to college. Instead we assess schools on how many kids pass or attend. So schools spend their time and energy dragging truants into classes and turning Ds into Cs. Anyone trying hard is just ignored, there is no news story, reward etc for getting a B kid to get an A etc...

outworlder 3y ago
> Some kids are educatable. Some are not. Citation needed. Why wouldn't they be, unless there's a disability? I have seen good teachers do wonders for 'problem' kids.
- csa 3y ago
  > Citation needed. Why wouldn't they be, unless there's a disability? They come from a sub-culture (mostly based on social-economic status) that is aggressively anti-intellectualism. Being bullied, shunned, etc. for being able to do things like read, do “basic” math, and/or speak anything outside of the local vernacular (e.g., something like a more neutral sounding “TV English”) is a thing. This type of research is abundant in the education literature. That said, it is not always presented as straightforwardly as one might expect since it doesn’t match up with certain agendas in the education research and policy worlds.
  - feoren 3y ago
    So if a kid is being bullied for learning to read, the answer is to stop teaching them to read? Is that really your suggestion? And by the way, the statement "Some kids are educatable. Some are not." also comes from a sub-culture that is aggressively anti-intellectual.

goodpoint 3y ago

It does not need to be said. The article is just extremely biased.

goodpoint 3y ago
More silent downvotes, congratulations HN.

veave 3y ago

It's not exactly like that. Average IQ is very different between races. That explains many discrepancies. And it also explains these policies that revolve around cutting down the tall poppies.

feoren 3y ago
> Average IQ is very different between races Wow, I thought we left this nonsense back in the 1960s. Study after study shows that every additional confounding factor you account for lessens this supposed difference. Nutrition, health, environment, socioeconomic status, cultural attitudes toward learning, implicit bias in the IQ tests themselves, blood lead levels, iodine levels; race is confounded with hundreds of variables. The more of those you hold constant, the less you see any difference in racial averages. I suspect people who still spout this nonsense know this, and/or don't care.