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Is there anyone out there who disagrees with this? I have not seen a single person (aside from the few people actually implementing these changes) that agrees w

Is there anyone out there who disagrees with this? I have not seen a single person (aside from the few people actually implementing these changes) that agrees with it.

LatteLazy 3y ago
One crazy shouting really loudly sounds like more people than 1k quite citizens when you're a politician trying to remain "in touch"
TheBigSalad 3y ago
It's a complete straw man argument. Nobody believes that it's better to dumb down education, but that's not what's happening here. Very specifically, they are replacing middle school algebra with a data sciences class. The idea is that the data science stuff would be more practical and get people interested in math more than algebra, which is a more abstract. It doesn't sound completely crazy to me.
- electriclove 3y ago
  Read the linked article from last week. Data science as implemented in this program is probably not what you think. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-education https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-edu...
  - TheBigSalad 3y ago
    I read that. It was just as bad and didn't really explain it. My favorite part was when he told me how society teaches girls they're bad at math, linking an article that said nothing of the sort. Both of these articles read like Fox News pieces. Lot's of anger and non objective opinions. It's such a turn off. But there were some interesting bits too. I quite like the idea of making AP classes opt out instead of opt in. That could be done in conjunction with replacing algebra with data sciences. I don't really have an opinion on which is better for middle schoolers, but this article failed to make up my mind.
tgv 3y ago
Read the article linked at the start: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-education https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-edu..., and you'll find that there are quite a few people supporting this, importantly in school boards, and education departments and such. They don't care about the rest of the world, because they are "the experts."
- rco8786 3y ago
  > aside from the few people actually implementing these changes That, though.
hackerfooze 3y ago
I disagree. In general what you'll find is that most of these advanced classes are dominated by certain economic groups. Public funds are advancing people with more resources when all they actually need is to pass state college entrance exams. It's not that children from low income families can't do the math, it's that they're at a huge disadvantage when their parents are often working, can't hover over them to make sure they figure it out, and can't afford Kumon. If you agree with a progressive tax rate (which not everyone does), surely you understand that this is a bad thing. I personally think all middle and high school should be bare minimum. Kids should be able to test out of classes when appropriate. The extra funds can go toward paying competent teachers for the less advanced subjects. If some parent wants their child to be advanced, they can use their own resources to help them test out of classes and take whatever APs they need. Also many of the comments on this topic here and on Twitter to me reek of solipsism. Every upper-class parent wants the best for their child, and every hacker thinks the story of their journey into math and CS is the most important one.
- eitally 3y ago
  In addition this, at least in California, kids can dual-enroll in community colleges to take supplementary or more advanced (or even vocational) courses that mostly do transfer for college credit when applying to UCs & CSUs. I sometimes wonder if this is how the German system came about, where there's a hard split in high school / gymnasium between the academic track kids and the vocational track kids (and there absolutely is not any shame in taking the vocational route).
- rco8786 3y ago
  So shouldn't the solution be to get kids from lower economic groups into those classes? Rather than stop teaching anyone? The solution you're proposing takes away any chance of accessing these advanced classes for lower economic groups, and keeps the economic inequality moving. What happens when the low income kids test out of the remedial class? Oh well, they're just done with school then? > Every upper-class parent wants the best for their child I'm not sure how to read into this. Why did you purposefully qualify this to only upper-class parents?

Is there anyone out there who disagrees with this? I have not seen a single person (aside from the few people actually implementing these changes) that agrees with it.

LatteLazy 3y ago

One crazy shouting really loudly sounds like more people than 1k quite citizens when you're a politician trying to remain "in touch"

TheBigSalad 3y ago

It's a complete straw man argument. Nobody believes that it's better to dumb down education, but that's not what's happening here. Very specifically, they are replacing middle school algebra with a data sciences class. The idea is that the data science stuff would be more practical and get people interested in math more than algebra, which is a more abstract. It doesn't sound completely crazy to me.

electriclove 3y ago
Read the linked article from last week. Data science as implemented in this program is probably not what you think. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-education https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-edu...
- TheBigSalad 3y ago
  I read that. It was just as bad and didn't really explain it. My favorite part was when he told me how society teaches girls they're bad at math, linking an article that said nothing of the sort. Both of these articles read like Fox News pieces. Lot's of anger and non objective opinions. It's such a turn off. But there were some interesting bits too. I quite like the idea of making AP classes opt out instead of opt in. That could be done in conjunction with replacing algebra with data sciences. I don't really have an opinion on which is better for middle schoolers, but this article failed to make up my mind.

tgv 3y ago

Read the article linked at the start: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-education https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/california-needs-real-math-edu..., and you'll find that there are quite a few people supporting this, importantly in school boards, and education departments and such. They don't care about the rest of the world, because they are "the experts."

rco8786 3y ago
> aside from the few people actually implementing these changes That, though.

hackerfooze 3y ago

I disagree. In general what you'll find is that most of these advanced classes are dominated by certain economic groups. Public funds are advancing people with more resources when all they actually need is to pass state college entrance exams. It's not that children from low income families can't do the math, it's that they're at a huge disadvantage when their parents are often working, can't hover over them to make sure they figure it out, and can't afford Kumon. If you agree with a progressive tax rate (which not everyone does), surely you understand that this is a bad thing. I personally think all middle and high school should be bare minimum. Kids should be able to test out of classes when appropriate. The extra funds can go toward paying competent teachers for the less advanced subjects. If some parent wants their child to be advanced, they can use their own resources to help them test out of classes and take whatever APs they need. Also many of the comments on this topic here and on Twitter to me reek of solipsism. Every upper-class parent wants the best for their child, and every hacker thinks the story of their journey into math and CS is the most important one.

eitally 3y ago
In addition this, at least in California, kids can dual-enroll in community colleges to take supplementary or more advanced (or even vocational) courses that mostly do transfer for college credit when applying to UCs & CSUs. I sometimes wonder if this is how the German system came about, where there's a hard split in high school / gymnasium between the academic track kids and the vocational track kids (and there absolutely is not any shame in taking the vocational route).
rco8786 3y ago
So shouldn't the solution be to get kids from lower economic groups into those classes? Rather than stop teaching anyone? The solution you're proposing takes away any chance of accessing these advanced classes for lower economic groups, and keeps the economic inequality moving. What happens when the low income kids test out of the remedial class? Oh well, they're just done with school then? > Every upper-class parent wants the best for their child I'm not sure how to read into this. Why did you purposefully qualify this to only upper-class parents?