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Sweden Sans
- elromulous 3y agohttps://archive.is/7ytlz https://archive.is/7ytlz I think we hugged it to death.
- cinntaile 3y agoIt's kind of sad that sweden.se can't handle a couple of thousand visitors under a short period of time.
- worksonmine 3y agoIt is, my Pi 2 could handle 10,000 req/s and this page could easily be cached or even static. What kind of traffic does the HN frontpage generate?
- arp242 3y agosweden.se is fine; it's identity.sweden.se that's having some problems. This is a really limited site with a target audience that's normally in the hundreds, perhaps thousands, of developers. It's probably just running on a cheap server/VPS somewhere, which is fine almost all of the time.
- KomoD 3y agoNo, it's running on debroome which uses AWS.
- jen729w 3y agoSorry, I know HN isn’t a support forum, but am I the only one who gets “Safari couldn’t establish a secure connection” to any of the archive.xx sites? It’s been happening for ages now.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- satysin 3y agoAre you using Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS by any chance?
- arjvik 3y agoDoes Cloudflare DNS block it? Or are you proposing Cloudflare DNS as a solution?
- satysin 3y agoIt's a long story! https://jarv.is/notes/cloudflare-dns-archive-is-blocked/ https://jarv.is/notes/cloudflare-dns-archive-is-blocked/ In short if you use Cloudflare's 1.1.1.1 DNS then some archive.is domains won't load so you should perhaps use another DNS server. Edit: Not because 1.1.1.1 is in the wrong it is just what the person behind archive.is recommends as he will not be changing his position and neither will Cloudflare so it's a bit of a stalemate.
- whatgoodisaroad 3y agothis story does more to persuade me to switch to 1.1.1.1
- arjvik 3y agoInteresting. If this becomes a widespread practice, I suppose Cloudflare could start including bogus client subnet values in its upstream requests.
- hostcontroller 3y agoIt's the other way around. The site blocks Cloudflare for some political reasons that have been mentioned here before, but I can't remember what they were.
- Sunspark 3y agoI love looking at new fonts but from the perspective of book readability, this one I feel has the letter spacing too close together, and possibly also too narrow letters.
- tomalaci 3y agoWe just hugged Sweden to death.
- intothemild 3y agoNormally any kind of social interaction has the same effect... Especially eye contact over a couple seconds.
- glonq 3y agoFinland says hi. From 3 meters away.
- TazeTSchnitzel 3y agoI think this is just for some site focussed at promoting Sweden's image to foreigners? I don't think I've ever seen this font in use in normal communications from the Swedish state, living here in Sweden. I like the Swedish Tax Agency's design language, if it can be called that. I don't think they use this Sweden Sans, but I'm not sure what they do use.
- mikae1 3y ago> I think this is just for some site focussed at promoting Sweden's image to foreigners? It’s run by the Swedish Institute. > The Swedish Institute is a public agency that builds interest and trust in Sweden around the world. We work with Sweden promotion, cooperation in the Baltic Sea region and global development. […] SI’s operations are financed mainly through appropriations directly through the state budget. SI has approximately 470 million Swedish government funds in four areas: international cooperation, international assistance, education and university research and business.[1] [1] https://si.se/en/about-si/our-mission/ https://si.se/en/about-si/our-mission/
- sakjur 3y agoI believe Sweden Sans is used as title typeface on the most recent national ID-cards and passports.
- astrolx 3y agoYep
- darkclouds 3y ago> I think this is just for some site focussed at promoting Sweden's image to foreigners? I did think that myself, certainly a bit of space and countryside to enjoy and getting around Sweden doesnt take long if you have a motorbike... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXiIJ32kaZU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXiIJ32kaZU Someone on Sweden was saying the Police have to catch you on the day to prove you are the driver, but I think I will stick to the German autobahns, less moose on the loose. ghost rider patrik fürstenhoff
- 3y ago
- RandallBrown 3y agoIt's called Sweden Sans, but it appears to have serifs on at least some of the letters like lowercase i and l. Am I misunderstanding what a serif is? Or am I understanding what sans means in this context?
- giraffe_lady 3y agoIt isn't a strict category like that. It is more like an indicator of the general font lineage the designer considers it to be in. But plenty of sans fonts have a handful of serifs, particularly on the mistakable chars like l. And especially if they're expected to be used in technical contexts or as an "everything all the time" font like this one.
- karaterobot 3y agoYeah, it looks like there are some slab serifs in there. I guess you could generously say that serif and sans-serif are handles on either end of what is really a spectrum. It may be simpler to call it a sans-serif, because if you called it a serif, people would expect it to be more serify.
- bobbylarrybobby 3y agoThe regular and bold versions probably qualify as slab serifs, but the “book” weight is a true sans. (Might be easiest to see if you just download the font and look at the OTF files.)
- AtNightWeCode 3y agoWhat you are not understanding is how corps are selling fonts. The Font is garbage.
- jdiff 3y agoNobody's selling this font. Cynicism in regards to corporations is a good thing but this is cynicism to the point of disconnecting from the actual underlying facts.
- 3y ago
- s-xyz 3y agoI think its quite good… not just the design but that they apply something governmental so thorough and modern.
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago(2014) Something new here?
- ChrisArchitect 3y agoMore looks from the designer https://so-type.com/custom/sweden-sans/ https://so-type.com/custom/sweden-sans/
- EastLondonCoder 3y agoMade by the design agency Söderhavet in Stockholm. More info here https://soderhavet.com/work/sweden/ https://soderhavet.com/work/sweden/
- jamesblonde 3y agoSoderhavet are not even in Soder - they're on Brunkebergsgatan 10, near t-centralen.
- nnnnnande 3y agoI’d wager that it’s a reference to the old Swedish name for the Pacific Ocean and not Södermalm.
- INTPenis 3y agoPippi i Söderhavet are my favorite old records from childhood. :)
- thomashabets2 3y agoSöderhavet is the Pacific? But that makes no sense, geographically!
- zgluck 3y agoBeing an early adopter sucks. In the early 16th century, Spanish explorer Vasco Núñez de Balboa crossed the Isthmus of Panama in 1513 and sighted the great "Southern Sea" which he named Mar del Sur (in Spanish). Afterwards, the ocean's current name was coined by Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan during the Spanish circumnavigation of the world in 1521, as he encountered favorable winds on reaching the ocean. He called it Mar Pacífico, which in Spanish, Portuguese and Italian means 'peaceful sea'. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Ocean#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Ocean#Etymology)
- scbrg 3y agoWell, in order to preserve inaccurate silliness we did start calling it Stilla Havet instead ;) (transl: The Calm Ocean)
- Kon5ole 3y agoI am fascinated by typography and page design and enjoy reading about it, but I have to admit I don't understand how this level of pedantry is able to survive. The amount of documentation and attention to detail spent on typefaces and when to use them is often off the charts compared to the time spent on stuff like keeping the website running, documenting the API or even the basic functionality of the app. It's like if someone grows oak trees for a century and slices veneer from it with a handcrafted blade and soaks it in coconut oil for a year before slapping it on a IKEA pulp honeycomb. :)
- mlsu 3y agoIt is actually amazing how much effort is seemingly expended on things like this. I think it's pretty simple: - there are a lot of people out there who love obsessing over typography - they want to obsess over typography - so they invent a purpose for obsessing over typography I love it, I'm here for it, and I think we should give people money for obsessing over typography.
- notatoad 3y agoi think it's even simpler - there are not that many people out there who love obsessing about typography - the few that do have figured out that they can make a viable business of selling typefaces for slightly less than the cost of licencing helvetica - writing a document like the one linked here makes people feel a bit better about cutting a big cheque for a typeface
- Kon5ole 3y agoI suspect you're on to something ;-) It might also be that people who obsess about typography are more inclined to create pretty documents whenever they can. API authors and DB designers are maybe less interested in making pretty documents, which is why their (at the very least equally important work) is often described in a readme.txt meant to be read from the terminal in the typeface of the reader's choice.
- jacobr1 3y ago
- joduplessis 3y agoFor a lot of the sections (esp. the Tone of motion section) - I have to ask: why?
- themodelplumber 3y agoMakes a lot of sense to me if you look at the examples, and think of all the wacky things people will try to do with video because they think they know that branding means "stick the logo in the video somewhere". It's adding consistency to the presentation and harmonizing with any accompanying non-motion graphic styles, as you might see in a cultural presentation environment with both packaging/signage and video or interactive elements for example.
- joduplessis 3y agoI did and, in my opinion, they are far too generic to offer any semblance of value in terms of video composition. I'm no expert though, so maybe a videographer can chime in - but it feels slightly pedantic.
- themodelplumber 3y agoThey're not telling you how to compose a video. They're giving you something to compare with as you compose your video. Too many other details will emerge, so it's a guideline and not a how-to. And, later, those guidelines give a designer an institutionally-bought-in way to talk to someone without talking down to them. Refer to the guideline and discuss the guideline, not "I'm right, you're wrong." It's not meant as purely a technical spec as it may be interpreted by more tech-oriented mindsets IOW.
- rickreynoldssf 3y agoHaving lived in Sweden, this font makes me hungry for lingonberry and bacon.
- bjoli 3y agoCloudberry jam and vanilla ice cream!
- roughly 3y agoPart of me desperately wishes they’d picked a serif font.
- DaveFlater 3y agoSweden Sans logically implies America Bold and Italy Italic
- blowski 3y agoNot Bolivia Bold?
- microtherion 3y agoBolivia Underlined
- DaveFlater 3y agoWe can make it America All Caps, Bolivia Bold, Italy Roman
- Telemakhos 3y ago> America Bold Sadly, it's Calibri. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/us/politics/state-department-times-new-roman-calibri.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/19/us/politics/state-departm...
- runlaszlorun 3y agoAmerica… puttin’ the comic back into Comic Sans…
- pmontra 3y agoItaly has the italics of every font, kind of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italic_type https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italic_type > The name comes from the fact that calligraphy-inspired typefaces were first designed in Italy, to replace documents traditionally written in a handwriting style called chancery hand. Aldus Manutius and Ludovico Arrighi (both between the 15th and 16th centuries) were the main type designers involved in this process at the time. > The first use in a complete volume was a 1501 edition of Virgil dedicated to Italy [...] > Italic type rapidly became very popular and was widely (and inaccurately) imitated. The Venetian Senate gave Aldus exclusive right to its use, a patent confirmed by three successive Popes, but it was widely counterfeited as early as 1502
- ComputerGuru 3y agoSite is barely loading (probably due to being on HN). Here's an archive copy: https://archive.is/7ytlz https://archive.is/7ytlz
- askonomm 3y agoNot to take away from Sweden, but Estonia also has something like this: https://brand.estonia.ee/guidelines/typography/?lang=en https://brand.estonia.ee/guidelines/typography/?lang=en
- davee5 3y agoBeauty in the eye of the beholder and all, but the Swedish work is largely quite pretty and readable where the Estonian guidelines are an excellent of what designers do when they can get away with it or the client is too compliant / eager to be different. (source: am designer) The intro claims the character of the Estonia brand is "nordic, surprising, smart" but the Aino font in particular seems way too focused on being surprising at the expense of legibility, which certainly diminishes expression of the smart element.
- noizejoy 3y agoAgreed. But also understandable? i.e. If you don’t get attention any other way, being surprising isn’t entirely irrational. The Estonia font looks useful for designing fluorescent lighting, though. :-)
- astrolx 3y agoMore recently I found about Finlandica for Finland, quite nice too. https://toolbox.finland.fi/brand-identity-and-guidelines/finlandica-font/ https://toolbox.finland.fi/brand-identity-and-guidelines/fin...
- smlacy 3y agoWow, this is really nice looking. Almost monospaced, and could easily be tweaked into a really nice looking font for programming.
- richdougherty 3y agoI agree, would love a mono version!
- jskherman 3y agoOh, no wonder some glyphs look tall for their respective characters. The Euro seems especially quirky.
- acjohnson55 3y agoI don't like the thing on the upper case A. It might be cool used sparingly, like only in headings. But it's distracting to see it for every A.
- stevage 3y agoThe tail on the lower case "a" is even worse imho. Really hurts readability because it barely looks like an "a" any more - more like an upside down "e".
- astrolx 3y agoYes, would be nice if they had a regular A, and that one as stylistic alternate. Removing the bit on the A to turn it into a regular one takes only a few clicks on Fontforge or another font-editing software, and the license allows modification and redistribution ;) [https://github.com/HelsinkiTypeStudio/Finlandica/blob/master/OFL.txt https://github.com/HelsinkiTypeStudio/Finlandica/blob/master...].
- etiennemarcel 3y agoFrance also has its own design system and font (Marianne): https://www.systeme-de-design.gouv.fr/elements-d-interface/fondamentaux-de-l-identite-de-l-etat/typographie/ https://www.systeme-de-design.gouv.fr/elements-d-interface/f...
- nicbou 3y agoBerlin has Berlin Type https://wir.berlin/kampagnen/die-typo https://wir.berlin/kampagnen/die-typo
- fmajid 3y agoThe UK has GDS Transport, which can only be used on gov.uk websites, not even internal UK government websites. https://design-system.service.gov.uk/styles/typography/ https://design-system.service.gov.uk/styles/typography/ The British government may be an omnishambles, but their websites are remarkably clear and readable, specially for an aging population with worsening eyesight.
- CSMastermind 3y agoBuilding an atlas of these for every country in the world seems like a fun project.
- cocodill 3y agodie Bundesregierung has their own fonts too. https://styleguide.bundesregierung.de/sg-de/basiselemente/schriften https://styleguide.bundesregierung.de/sg-de/basiselemente/sc...
- tuukkah 3y agoThe focus is very different though as the Swedish one is a brand guide for country marketing purposes while this is for developing government services.
- The_Double 3y agoTo add to the list: The Netherlands has "rijksoverheid" (government) in sans and serif. https://www.rijkshuisstijl.nl/publiek/modules/product/DigitalStyleGuide/default/index.aspx?ItemId=6745 https://www.rijkshuisstijl.nl/publiek/modules/product/Digita...
- mrintegrity 3y agoThere are quite a few grammatical errors on that page which is surprising, as much because of the sites subject as the fact that Swedes excel at English
- kdmccormick 3y agosite's
- sib 3y ago"page, which"
- rav 3y agoSweden using Ø for 0 is so insensitive towards their fellow Scandic neighbors to the west! Such a Swedish thing to do.
- flurdy 3y agoYeah I know Sweden uses Ö but when two of their neighbors uses Ø it seems so ignorant. I get annoyed at and confused but can forgive fonts made in primarily English speaking people when they don't have a normal zero but I would have expected more from a fellow Scandinavian country.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mongol 3y ago> Inspired by the old signages system in Sweden I am interested in this part. Which signage system does it refer to? It does not immediately ring a bell for me.
- jffry 3y agoI found a Guardian article [1] which quotes one of the people involved: "We started to think about how it would work with different typefaces, then started mood boards with different fonts and pictures – especially of old Swedish signs we'd seen from the 1940s and 50s," said Jesper Robinell, Söderhavet’s head of design. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/14/sweden-sans-designers-create-national-font https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/14/sweden-sans-de...
- mongol 3y agoI was originally thinking of the old Stockholm subway signage typeface. But it does not look similar https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esseltub https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esseltub https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Esseltub-Regular https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Esseltub-Regular
- ShadowBanThis01 3y agoCrossbars on the capital "i": CHECK Zero distinguished from capital "o"? CHECK APPROVED
- jankovicsandras 3y ago"Zero distinguished from capital "o"? CHECK" Sorry, I have to disagree. In fact, that was the first thing I saw and decided I "disapprove" this typeface. Why? Because it looks too similar to norwegian Ø. It's a very good idea to clearly distinguish zero 0 from capital O, but it should not look like Ø ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%98 ) either, because there are many swedish businesses, websites, etc. operating in Norway. I know swedish alphabet uses Ö ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96 ), but still.
- bjourne 3y agoI am Swedish and I've never heard of the Sweden Sans font before. The font doesn't look very "Swedish" to me and is completely different from the font used on road signage, for example. For running text the font doesn't work at all imo.
- giraffe_lady 3y agoRoad signage is actually a very specific and typographically demanding use case with its own whole world of constraints and consequences. It's everywhere so very mundane to us, but it's not surprising at all that a general-purpose font isn't usable for it.
- asdfv09s9d80fu9 3y agoYou find the font on the national ID cards.
- bjourne 3y agoTrue, though it appears to be a recent change. The font is not on my id card from 2021 but apparently on id cards from 2023.
- fnord77 3y agoultimately derived from Switzerland, the font (Helvetica)
- antipaul 3y agoNo italic
- omoikane 3y agoI find it funny that they used 能登さん (Noto-san) in the example text for Noto Sans. I wonder if that's a reference to 能登麻美子 (Noto Mamiko)?
- michaelmior 3y agoI can't be the only one who finds that the headings are far too close to the body text.
- fprog 3y agoIn the USA, we have Public Sans! https://public-sans.digital.gov/ https://public-sans.digital.gov/
- presbyterian 3y agoAnd like always, Sweden's is much nicer...
- rafram 3y agoI think Public is pretty nice, honestly. It feels official while still looking friendly and modern. Sweden’s is cool, but I don’t see what it actually does better on a practical level.
- throwawaymobule 3y agoThis gets me wondering if Switzerland has an equivalent font, and what they'd call it since 'Helvetica' is already taken.
- tomrod 3y agoWhat is the licensing on this? Could I use it for my personal or professional projects?
- Kye 3y agoI assume the overall branding terms cover this. https://identity.sweden.se/en/about-this-site#abouttermsanduse https://identity.sweden.se/en/about-this-site#abouttermsandu...
- tomrod 3y agoSweet. I didn't see it when looking initially, appreciate the pointer. Definitely limited use in scope :) Back to Noto Sans!
- remram 3y agoIt really doesn't matter how much attention you spend on typeface and design if the way you greet visitors is with an obnoxious "are you sure you don't want our tracking cookies?" where I have to click two tiny checkboxes, followed by a user-hostile trick bold "accept all" button next to the faded "accepted selected" option. If you really wanted to improve UX, one of those things is more worthy of attention.
- shmoe 3y agoGDPR is great in theory, mostly in practice.
- remram 3y agoThat is such a silly take. GDPR doesn't force you to keep using unsafe tracking methods on your not-even-commercial website. GDPR doesn't require you try and trick me with the two "accept" buttons. Collect metrics in a lawful way and GDPR doesn't hurt your UX.
- asdfv09s9d80fu9 3y agoCheck out https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/i-dont-care-about-cookies/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/i-dont-care-a...
- jerojero 3y agoI appreciate when governments make an effort to build proper style guidelines for their national brand. I think the UK has done a great job with their government website and their digital platforms. So it's good to see more governments getting into it as well.
- zagrebian 3y agoWhy does this website require JavaScript?
- GrazeMor 3y agoThis used to be called Tratex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tratex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tratex
- CharlesW 3y agoI’m surprised that a country would choose/create a typeface with only four weights and no italics for their design system. I’d understand if it was primarily a display font, but it seems intended for body copy as well.
- xeonmc 3y agoWell, it is Sweden Sans not Italy Sans.
- stevage 3y agoIt may be well designed etc etc etc...but I actually found it a bit hard to read. Maybe the letter spacing is too wide? So it's fractionally too hard to distinguish spaces from intra-word spacing. Also...look under "Type usage" - they are using an image of a table instead of a table? Good lord.
- unixhero 3y agoBeautiful , clean and definately a complete body of work. However I cannot say I like it. It reminds me of the text governments use on informing rules and regulations, visa rules, duty free information and so on. For publication, Garamond Premier Pro is my favorite of them all: https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Garamond-Premier-Pro-Regular https://fontsgeek.com/fonts/Garamond-Premier-Pro-Regular
- extragood 3y agoI haven't read a physical newspaper in years, but if I were to read one again, I hope it's using that font
- vanderZwan 3y ago> However I cannot say I like it. It reminds me of the text governments use on informing rules and regulations, visa rules, duty free information and so on. Well, that seems to be its primary use-case so I guess it works as intended, no?
- ThePowerOfFuet 3y agoTracking cookies enabled by default? Terrible first impression.
- pyrophoenix 3y agoOn the contrary, Norway money font are based on 2 Swiss Fonts https://fontsinuse.com/uses/29444/norwegian-banknotes-2014-2019 https://fontsinuse.com/uses/29444/norwegian-banknotes-2014-2...
- pragmatick 3y agoI think your comment is missing some context.
- pallas_athena 3y agoBerlin Type: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36489860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36489860
- alexander_wall 3y agoNice font and all, but I’m not sure how I feel about my tax money being spent developing a font to promote Sweden.
- ecmascript 3y agoAwesome, so where can I download and use this font? Oh, you can't. So they just spent a lot of my tax money in order to create a font to promote sweden on social media. Great. Also note that they use their social media to spread highly political content in which does not resonate with many swedes.
- Jaxan 3y agoIn the Netherlands we have Rijksoverheid sans https://www.rijkshuisstijl.nl/publiek/modules/product/DigitalStyleGuide/default/index.aspx?ItemId=6745 https://www.rijkshuisstijl.nl/publiek/modules/product/Digita...
- _sky-captain_ 3y agoThis is an old thread, but I'm a little puzzled by developers wondering why the tools we use should not be well-specified. I work on backend systems that rely heavily on high-specialized RFCs for DNS and domain name registrars. If they weren't painstakingly detailed, we'd be toast. But a new executive (no longer with us) once told us to simplify our representation of top-level domains because she thought it was too complicated, as though we could ignore the RFCs. Are we playing with an idea that has similar dangers here? Ask the opposite question: what would happen if typeface designers didn't go to all this detail? Would we just want to know that "Arial is the round-ish one and Times New Roman has little footsy things?" Font selection is a big deal to brand identity and marketing. They like to have lots of choices. We even design our own fonts sometimes. How many developers have, as I have, changed fonts in our code editors, looking for the one that's "just right?" For whatever reasons, the demand for distinct fonts is high, and if there are lots of fonts, they need to be completely specified, so that they can be created and rendered correctly.
- bone_frequency 3y agoThat sure is a lot of pompous talk for a Helvetica knockoff