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> getting the vaccine basically led to people not getting symptomatic covid. Folks got what they thought of as a bad cold. Am I mistaken in thinking that "bad

> getting the vaccine basically led to people not getting symptomatic covid. Folks got what they thought of as a bad cold. Am I mistaken in thinking that "bad cold" == symptomatic? Doesn't symptomatic just mean had symptoms? It sounds like you're talking about severe covid.

taeric 3y ago
Not mistaken, but also not useful. In particular, it is hard to tease out folks that did have a common cold from those that had reduced covid. The vast majority of the covid positive folks I knew post vaccine were asymptomatic. Almost apologetic that they tested positive for it, but not at all sick or scared. Even my kids, when they tested positive, were more upset about implications than they were physically ill. (Indeed, for our kids, when they finally tested positive, we didn't see any symptoms from them at all...)
- ifyoubuildit 3y ago
  What is reduced covid? The ifr for a 30 something was .06% before vaccines according to the study below. If my math is correct, thats one 30-something dying for every 1667 infected before vaccines. I don't have hospitalization data handy, but I think "reduced covid" is just what most people had, vaccinated or not. That's not to discount the ones that did get it bad of course, and my condolences for any losses you suffered. Of course it can still be true that the deaths happened more often in unvaccinated people (did that continue to be true the whole time?), while your individual risk of death was low (the .06 above in my case, and I had a pretty standard cold both times thankfully). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02867-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
  - taeric 3y ago
    Just look up the hospitalization and death rates for folks vaccinated and not. It is stark in difference. I had what was probably covid early on. Was like the time I got pneumonia. Asthma attacks in my youth were comparable, if much shorter lived. Getting a positive test case later was something that gave me a fever for a few hours. Scary, due to circumstances. But I was back up and moving in basically no time.
    - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
      > Just look up the hospitalization and death rates for folks vaccinated and not. It is stark in difference. Are those rates an argument against the claim that most people didn't have a bad case, vaccinated or not? > I had what was probably covid early on. Was like the time I got pneumonia. Asthma attacks in my youth were comparable, if much shorter lived. Getting a positive test case later was something that gave me a fever for a few hours. Scary, due to circumstances. But I was back up and moving in basically no time. How do you know that your possible second case's low severity is due to the vaccine and not the immunity you would have developed in the first case, or weakening of variants (or some mix of all 3), or even just random chance? It's hard to ignore personal experience, but it only tells us so much. Like me with my 2 unvaccinated cases having an easy time, I'd be remiss if I generalized that to everyone.
      - taeric 3y ago
        What are you driving at? The rates for vaccinated versus not are a clear indicator that the vaccines helped. Hard to see any other way of interpreting that data. You are correct that, if I did, in fact, have an early case of covid, I cannot be sure that the vaccine helped me with the later case. So, as far as that goes, my "evidence" is anecdotal at best and can't be taken fully as proof of anything. You will have a hard time arguing against vaccines with the aggregate evidence above, though.
        ifyoubuildit 3y ago
        Sorry, let me clarify. I'm not trying to argue against vaccines. I entered the thread at > getting the vaccine basically led to people not getting symptomatic covid. Folks got what they thought of as a bad cold. I asked for clarity there because it didn't line up with what I understood to be symptomatic covid (have covid and have any symptoms). It sounded like you were really saying the vaccine led to people in your circle not having severe covid. I believe it is true that the vaccine reduced instances of severe covid. But my point in this thread is that most people already weren't going to have severe covid (based on ifr rates pre vaccine, though hospitalization data would be more useful here). In other words, "The rates for vaccinated versus not are a clear indicator that the vaccines helped" is true as I understand it, and not something I'm arguing against. It does not contradict "most cases of covid were not severe, vaccinated or not" though. Does that make sense?

taeric 3y ago

Not mistaken, but also not useful. In particular, it is hard to tease out folks that did have a common cold from those that had reduced covid. The vast majority of the covid positive folks I knew post vaccine were asymptomatic. Almost apologetic that they tested positive for it, but not at all sick or scared. Even my kids, when they tested positive, were more upset about implications than they were physically ill. (Indeed, for our kids, when they finally tested positive, we didn't see any symptoms from them at all...)

ifyoubuildit 3y ago
What is reduced covid? The ifr for a 30 something was .06% before vaccines according to the study below. If my math is correct, thats one 30-something dying for every 1667 infected before vaccines. I don't have hospitalization data handy, but I think "reduced covid" is just what most people had, vaccinated or not. That's not to discount the ones that did get it bad of course, and my condolences for any losses you suffered. Of course it can still be true that the deaths happened more often in unvaccinated people (did that continue to be true the whole time?), while your individual risk of death was low (the .06 above in my case, and I had a pretty standard cold both times thankfully). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02867-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
- taeric 3y ago
  Just look up the hospitalization and death rates for folks vaccinated and not. It is stark in difference. I had what was probably covid early on. Was like the time I got pneumonia. Asthma attacks in my youth were comparable, if much shorter lived. Getting a positive test case later was something that gave me a fever for a few hours. Scary, due to circumstances. But I was back up and moving in basically no time.
  - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
    > Just look up the hospitalization and death rates for folks vaccinated and not. It is stark in difference. Are those rates an argument against the claim that most people didn't have a bad case, vaccinated or not? > I had what was probably covid early on. Was like the time I got pneumonia. Asthma attacks in my youth were comparable, if much shorter lived. Getting a positive test case later was something that gave me a fever for a few hours. Scary, due to circumstances. But I was back up and moving in basically no time. How do you know that your possible second case's low severity is due to the vaccine and not the immunity you would have developed in the first case, or weakening of variants (or some mix of all 3), or even just random chance? It's hard to ignore personal experience, but it only tells us so much. Like me with my 2 unvaccinated cases having an easy time, I'd be remiss if I generalized that to everyone.
    - taeric 3y ago
      What are you driving at? The rates for vaccinated versus not are a clear indicator that the vaccines helped. Hard to see any other way of interpreting that data. You are correct that, if I did, in fact, have an early case of covid, I cannot be sure that the vaccine helped me with the later case. So, as far as that goes, my "evidence" is anecdotal at best and can't be taken fully as proof of anything. You will have a hard time arguing against vaccines with the aggregate evidence above, though.
      - ifyoubuildit 3y ago
        Sorry, let me clarify. I'm not trying to argue against vaccines. I entered the thread at > getting the vaccine basically led to people not getting symptomatic covid. Folks got what they thought of as a bad cold. I asked for clarity there because it didn't line up with what I understood to be symptomatic covid (have covid and have any symptoms). It sounded like you were really saying the vaccine led to people in your circle not having severe covid. I believe it is true that the vaccine reduced instances of severe covid. But my point in this thread is that most people already weren't going to have severe covid (based on ifr rates pre vaccine, though hospitalization data would be more useful here). In other words, "The rates for vaccinated versus not are a clear indicator that the vaccines helped" is true as I understand it, and not something I'm arguing against. It does not contradict "most cases of covid were not severe, vaccinated or not" though. Does that make sense?