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In Arizona, 75% of transportation infrastructure comes from licensing, vehicle registration, gas taxes and other miscellaneous income directly related to road u

In Arizona, 75% of transportation infrastructure comes from licensing, vehicle registration, gas taxes and other miscellaneous income directly related to road use. Does everyone not using those services derive ⅓ the benefit of those that do? You certainly travel on roads and/or use food and services that do? I’d be completely fine if 100% of transportations budget came from fees directly related to use (increase gas or mileage taxes and decrease income or property taxes). For most people it would probably be net zero, and for those that save on taxes the increased cost to businesses would be passed on to customers in increased prices.

fnimick 3y ago
And you can't make the same broad benefit argument for public transit? Rip out the MTA or the El and see how state finances do when all that economic activity in the city center grinds to a halt. Not to mention that there are more costs to driving than just the physical road - there's the opportunity cost of lost land, injuries, deaths, health effects from exposure to exhaust, climate change....
r00fus 3y ago
What about federal funding? USG covers a huge amount of costs in road maintenance. State funding of roads doesn't nearly cover the overall costs of the freeways. The $52.5 billion in apportioned funding for Fiscal Year 2022 represents an increase of more than 20% as compared to Fiscal Year 2021 for Federal-aid Highway Program US Taxpayers cover this. [1] https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/fhwa-delivers-largest-federal-highway-apportionment-decades-part-bipartisan#:~:text=The%20%2452.5%20billion%20in%20apportioned,Federal%2Daid%20Highway%20Program%20apportionments https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/fhwa-delivers-l....
- Brendinooo 3y ago
  Looks like transit gets "$18 billion annually for public transportation programs from 2022 to 2026", good for 31% of its capital expenses and 8% of its operating expenses. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57940 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57940 So it gets federal dollars too. And things like roads and bridges are also subsidizing transit because buses will use them too.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    My point is that no transit (roads or mass transit) can be fully funded by fares as the function is too important. Also, intestate traffic/rail too important for the federal level. So the idea that mass transit can go to fare-free and rely entirely on government funding via taxes is the logical conclusion. Transit (like IT in a company) is an enabler/multiplier, not a product.

fnimick 3y ago

And you can't make the same broad benefit argument for public transit? Rip out the MTA or the El and see how state finances do when all that economic activity in the city center grinds to a halt. Not to mention that there are more costs to driving than just the physical road - there's the opportunity cost of lost land, injuries, deaths, health effects from exposure to exhaust, climate change....

r00fus 3y ago

What about federal funding? USG covers a huge amount of costs in road maintenance. State funding of roads doesn't nearly cover the overall costs of the freeways. The $52.5 billion in apportioned funding for Fiscal Year 2022 represents an increase of more than 20% as compared to Fiscal Year 2021 for Federal-aid Highway Program US Taxpayers cover this. [1] https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/fhwa-delivers-largest-federal-highway-apportionment-decades-part-bipartisan#:~:text=The%20%2452.5%20billion%20in%20apportioned,Federal%2Daid%20Highway%20Program%20apportionments https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/fhwa-delivers-l....

Brendinooo 3y ago
Looks like transit gets "$18 billion annually for public transportation programs from 2022 to 2026", good for 31% of its capital expenses and 8% of its operating expenses. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57940 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/57940 So it gets federal dollars too. And things like roads and bridges are also subsidizing transit because buses will use them too.
- r00fus 3y ago
  My point is that no transit (roads or mass transit) can be fully funded by fares as the function is too important. Also, intestate traffic/rail too important for the federal level. So the idea that mass transit can go to fare-free and rely entirely on government funding via taxes is the logical conclusion. Transit (like IT in a company) is an enabler/multiplier, not a product.