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> But there is one problem. There is virtually no recognition of how bad things are among British elites Not just elites - ordinary british people too. I've be

> But there is one problem. There is virtually no recognition of how bad things are among British elites Not just elites - ordinary british people too. I've been saying for 10 years that britain is falling behing the rest fo Europe. I give real examples from my life, "In Czech republic I/anyone has access to Proton therapy and housing is better built, but in Britain protin therapy is missing (was first built last year, ex-communist CZ has it for like 20 years) and quality housing is only accessible to millionairs." And if I am taling to a british person, there is like a 50% chance they will get offended and respond like "well then why are you here". I had similar responce on this very forum. And when "locals" bring this up publically, they get accused of 'talking britain down'. Kind of came up in the brexit debate under 'project fear'. I feel it will get a lot worse before people will finally get their sputnic moment and realise they are in a hole.

twixfel 3y ago
I am British and the best one is: "we are the 6th richest economy in the world". Absolutely thought terminating nonsense.
skippyboxedhero 3y ago
When comparing with places like Czech Republic, people often forget that most of this area in "Eastern Europe" (this isn't Eastern Europe really) was very well-industralized until the mid-20th century when things went very wrong. So it is true, places like the Czech Republic have done well versus the UK...they have good policies in place, they are doing sensible things. For some reason though, the comparison is never made with places like Spain or Italy, most East European countries are now ahead of them and Britain is still ahead of them too. Even more strangely, no-one is suggesting that we should be more like these countries either...that we should be friendly to business, that we should limit immigration...strange, isn't it? People outside the UK talk a lot about Brexit, the reason why it isn't really mentioned outside Westminster in the UK is because it isn't that important. We don't export much to the EU (we consume far more), it isn't a huge consumer market, it is shrinking, and there has been no real noticeable impact...even in industries that were going to be "decimated" (such as meat processing)...it isn't happened. There has just been no real impact to speak of. The only exception was NI, which was a situation designed by the EU in order to place pressure on voters ahead of the 2019 election...which didn't work, and which has largely been unwound now that the EU has seen sense (and after several terrorist attacks in NI largely due to, well justified, fears that the EU was motivated by Ireland's desire to seize their country). After 2019, all the rhetoric basically disappeared because all the people pushing for a second referendum discovered they didn't have a job anymore (and everyone else who kept their job, said they never really supported a second referendum at all).
- ClumsyPilot 3y ago
  > we should be more like these countries either...that we should be friendly to business, that we should limit immigration...strange, isn't it? I've run a startup in UK and my family has a company in CZ, Britain is so much more friendly to business from my experience. > there has been no real noticeable impact...even in industries that were going to be "decimated" [by brexit] What is the basis for your opinion? I have been unable to get goods from EU because of customs. I cannot post thing back to my family because now you get charged VAT for sending gifts by post to EU. I have never met a person that deals with import or export who was not dismayed by this.
  - skippyboxedhero 3y ago
    Because you have never worked for a large business. It is almost impossible to build anything anywhere, there are massive amounts of regulations if you do get started, interventions from multiple levels of government, it is genuinely mad. Look at mortgages, you have the government telling private banks to bail out mortgage-holders...do you think this would happen in Czechia? Just think about is happening: bank executives were summoned to No.10, they were told they were going to have to lose billions of pounds a year to pay for people's mortgages, they accepted this completely...is this normal? ...what? Stop for a second and think about what you are saying. Do you believe that one of the largest export markets for the EU was suddenly shut down overnight? The rules with VAT are unrelated to Brexit, and were largely due to the staggering levels of VAT fraud occurring with imports from China. If you are sending things to relatives, you do not pay VAT...that isn't what it is for. Baffling. I don't even know what to say at this point. You don't understand how any of this stuff works, why rules were change, these points should be obviously wrong to you with even the slightest application of logic. Okay, you claim your weird points...look at the results of any public company that trades with Europe. You have companies that run cross-border meat processing, something that was supposed to be impossible after Brexit...none reported any impact (because they prepared their documents, and this was something that most of these companies were already doing because...surprise, surprise...the EU does not encompass the whole world, and they traded in and outside of the EU already).

twixfel 3y ago

I am British and the best one is: "we are the 6th richest economy in the world". Absolutely thought terminating nonsense.

skippyboxedhero 3y ago

When comparing with places like Czech Republic, people often forget that most of this area in "Eastern Europe" (this isn't Eastern Europe really) was very well-industralized until the mid-20th century when things went very wrong. So it is true, places like the Czech Republic have done well versus the UK...they have good policies in place, they are doing sensible things. For some reason though, the comparison is never made with places like Spain or Italy, most East European countries are now ahead of them and Britain is still ahead of them too. Even more strangely, no-one is suggesting that we should be more like these countries either...that we should be friendly to business, that we should limit immigration...strange, isn't it? People outside the UK talk a lot about Brexit, the reason why it isn't really mentioned outside Westminster in the UK is because it isn't that important. We don't export much to the EU (we consume far more), it isn't a huge consumer market, it is shrinking, and there has been no real noticeable impact...even in industries that were going to be "decimated" (such as meat processing)...it isn't happened. There has just been no real impact to speak of. The only exception was NI, which was a situation designed by the EU in order to place pressure on voters ahead of the 2019 election...which didn't work, and which has largely been unwound now that the EU has seen sense (and after several terrorist attacks in NI largely due to, well justified, fears that the EU was motivated by Ireland's desire to seize their country). After 2019, all the rhetoric basically disappeared because all the people pushing for a second referendum discovered they didn't have a job anymore (and everyone else who kept their job, said they never really supported a second referendum at all).

ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> we should be more like these countries either...that we should be friendly to business, that we should limit immigration...strange, isn't it? I've run a startup in UK and my family has a company in CZ, Britain is so much more friendly to business from my experience. > there has been no real noticeable impact...even in industries that were going to be "decimated" [by brexit] What is the basis for your opinion? I have been unable to get goods from EU because of customs. I cannot post thing back to my family because now you get charged VAT for sending gifts by post to EU. I have never met a person that deals with import or export who was not dismayed by this.
- skippyboxedhero 3y ago
  Because you have never worked for a large business. It is almost impossible to build anything anywhere, there are massive amounts of regulations if you do get started, interventions from multiple levels of government, it is genuinely mad. Look at mortgages, you have the government telling private banks to bail out mortgage-holders...do you think this would happen in Czechia? Just think about is happening: bank executives were summoned to No.10, they were told they were going to have to lose billions of pounds a year to pay for people's mortgages, they accepted this completely...is this normal? ...what? Stop for a second and think about what you are saying. Do you believe that one of the largest export markets for the EU was suddenly shut down overnight? The rules with VAT are unrelated to Brexit, and were largely due to the staggering levels of VAT fraud occurring with imports from China. If you are sending things to relatives, you do not pay VAT...that isn't what it is for. Baffling. I don't even know what to say at this point. You don't understand how any of this stuff works, why rules were change, these points should be obviously wrong to you with even the slightest application of logic. Okay, you claim your weird points...look at the results of any public company that trades with Europe. You have companies that run cross-border meat processing, something that was supposed to be impossible after Brexit...none reported any impact (because they prepared their documents, and this was something that most of these companies were already doing because...surprise, surprise...the EU does not encompass the whole world, and they traded in and outside of the EU already).