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Your mistake is caring. Are you being rewarded for working much harder than your colleagues? Are they being punished for working hardly at all? Why are you work

Your mistake is caring. Are you being rewarded for working much harder than your colleagues? Are they being punished for working hardly at all? Why are you working hard for the benefit of the company's bottom line? It's a big company, why do you care about its bottom line? Your colleagues have the right attitude. They are doing the absolute bare minimum to collect a paycheck and go home. I suggest you do the same. Caring about your job is only acceptable if your labor is sufficiently rewarded, you own the company, or if it's some kind of non-profit or public service job that actually benefits society. If you're working for a for-profit organization, the goal is not to work hard, but to be exploited as little as possible.

Arch-TK 3y ago
I need a job I can care about or else I struggle to do the work.
- thevtm 3y ago
  Right now this is unbearable for you but getting angry with your colleagues is just going to make it unbearable for everyone. Spending your passion on your own projects or OSS will yield you better returns 9 times out of 10.
  - Arch-TK 3y ago
    You confused me for OP. I spend most of my free time with housework, socializing and hobbies but there just isn't enough meaningful stuff I care to do outside of working hours to overcome the 8 hours a day of meaningless work I do for my employer. It’s clear other people are able to manage but I have been trying for years and all I ever manage to get out of it is depression. I just can't do meaningless work for 8 hours a day.
- eddieroger 3y ago
  One can care about their job without caring what their peers are doing. Do your work, do it the best you can, and let management deal with everyone else (or not).
  - Arch-TK 3y ago
    Sure, but the point made by the person I replied to was that you shouldn't care about your job. Also, it's normally quite difficult to do a job which requires collaboration when other people don't care about it. Likewise, it becomes difficult to not get burned out if you care about a job and your employer doesn't recognize and reward this. I think overall my objection is to blanket advice I've heard during my life about how much care I should put into my work. I have never been able to be effective (and as a result have had issues with) doing meaningless work which I didn't care about. I have also had issues with continuing to care about work which people I work with didn't care about. It's clear that a carefree approach works for some people but in this case it seems like better advice for OP would be to explain how to find jobs where people do care rather than trying to tell him (and other people in that situation) to just deal with it.
CookieCrisp 3y ago
I made the same "mistake" this person did. Companies didn't reward me. But you know what? I kept improving, they didn't, and I was eventually able to launch my own company while they stay stuck in that job. Obviously companies should reward us for doing better, but, when they don't it still doesn't mean there's no potential benefit from "practicing" doing good work while at work.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  That's a great solution to the "mistake" for you. And while it's great to be able to launch and run your own company, not everyone wants the stress that comes with that. I've also "practiced" skills at work to improve myself, though I haven't launched a company. I've also worked with many colleagues who were great at their jobs, but that's all it was for them - a job. Their passions (which was sometimes just their family) lied elsewhere. They were just working to support that and were perfectly happy with their lives. I wouldn't try to take that from them.
michaelmior 3y ago
> Caring about your job is only acceptable if… This suggests that it's unacceptable to care about doing your job well because you enjoy it or simply because your morals compel you to work hard at what you do. I don't think there's anything wrong with someone choosing to work hard for these reasons if that's their choice.
ojhughes 3y ago
This is a terrible take, if you are passionate about your work then those 8 hours go a whole lot quicker. If you’re not passionate then I would question if the position is a good fit
- mettamage 3y ago
  People have to eat. Not everyone has a passion in the working realm. My passion would be to make music. I don't think I have the commercial instinct or drive to make a living out of it. Also, that might just destroy my passion. But you're right though, when I am in flow, those 8 hours go by a lot quicker :)
- piva00 3y ago
  I used to be passionate about coding at work, that gave me my first job, then my second, then some startups, big cos, and so on. At some point it doesn't really matter to try to keep yourself passionate about your job, you get enough experience, and you've seen how the maturity cycle of almost any tech company goes, in a general sense. At that point my passion for coding as a job disappeared, one just need to perform it well, professionally, and deliver what's expected of you for being paid to do it. Is it nicer to work in a product/organisation you are passionate about? Of course, it doesn't mean this passion will last, or that it will be rewarded, or that it will even be healthy for you (one of the jobs I burned out from was exactly the one I was the most passionate about). Building products follows the same patterns, even if the underlying technologies are different, or if you work on a product in a very different market/industry. It becomes all more of the same: store data somewhere, pull data from somewhere, transform some data to some other format, write some business logic, develop an interface, develop an application (web, desktop, mobile, embedded), deploy your systems at some server, monitor your systems (or implement telemetry if working embedded). You don't need to be passionate to work like that, you just need to be professional. By doing that you also avoid the common pitfall of being exploited because of your passion.
- noirbot 3y ago
  I don't think you necessarily disagree with them. The issue is most people don't have the option to find a position that's a good fit. Or you find out the companies with a mission you're passionate about have a work culture that you're not. If you're only working places you're passionate about, you're really winnowing the field of possible employers. I say this as someone who's working at a company I generally respect and am passionate about the product of - I think more than most of my friends who work in the field are about their work. If I wanted another job, there's not a huge pool of companies I would even want to apply to. If I lose my job, or quit, then I'm often going to need to apply and work somewhere that's not a good fit. I can hold out for a bit without a job, but there's no promise that another company I'm also passionate about is hiring for any position I'm qualified for. At the end of the day, I'd generally rather be programming somewhere I don't love than working as a bartender or delivery driver.
neilv 3y ago
> Your colleagues have the right attitude. They are doing the absolute bare minimum to collect a paycheck and go home. I suggest you do the same. We don't know that. That's one stereotype theory that comes to mind when we hear "big company", but that's not the only plausible explanation. Also, some people told to do the bare minimum at their jobs will think "Alrighty!" But the same advice could be very counterproductive for people who take pride in their craft or professionalism, or who want to see the mission happen. Those people should be nudged towards improving their situation (either at the current place, or somewhere else), not destroying their strengths.
agg23 3y ago
Passion can be good, but it must also be measured. I was in a similar situation for several years where I ended up running the show. Was super passionate about the project and doing all the things... Ended up horribly burnt out, to the point that I'm still struggling with the idea of working 2 years later.

Arch-TK 3y ago

I need a job I can care about or else I struggle to do the work.

thevtm 3y ago
Right now this is unbearable for you but getting angry with your colleagues is just going to make it unbearable for everyone. Spending your passion on your own projects or OSS will yield you better returns 9 times out of 10.
- Arch-TK 3y ago
  You confused me for OP. I spend most of my free time with housework, socializing and hobbies but there just isn't enough meaningful stuff I care to do outside of working hours to overcome the 8 hours a day of meaningless work I do for my employer. It’s clear other people are able to manage but I have been trying for years and all I ever manage to get out of it is depression. I just can't do meaningless work for 8 hours a day.
eddieroger 3y ago
One can care about their job without caring what their peers are doing. Do your work, do it the best you can, and let management deal with everyone else (or not).
- Arch-TK 3y ago
  Sure, but the point made by the person I replied to was that you shouldn't care about your job. Also, it's normally quite difficult to do a job which requires collaboration when other people don't care about it. Likewise, it becomes difficult to not get burned out if you care about a job and your employer doesn't recognize and reward this. I think overall my objection is to blanket advice I've heard during my life about how much care I should put into my work. I have never been able to be effective (and as a result have had issues with) doing meaningless work which I didn't care about. I have also had issues with continuing to care about work which people I work with didn't care about. It's clear that a carefree approach works for some people but in this case it seems like better advice for OP would be to explain how to find jobs where people do care rather than trying to tell him (and other people in that situation) to just deal with it.

CookieCrisp 3y ago

I made the same "mistake" this person did. Companies didn't reward me. But you know what? I kept improving, they didn't, and I was eventually able to launch my own company while they stay stuck in that job. Obviously companies should reward us for doing better, but, when they don't it still doesn't mean there's no potential benefit from "practicing" doing good work while at work.

LeafItAlone 3y ago
That's a great solution to the "mistake" for you. And while it's great to be able to launch and run your own company, not everyone wants the stress that comes with that. I've also "practiced" skills at work to improve myself, though I haven't launched a company. I've also worked with many colleagues who were great at their jobs, but that's all it was for them - a job. Their passions (which was sometimes just their family) lied elsewhere. They were just working to support that and were perfectly happy with their lives. I wouldn't try to take that from them.

michaelmior 3y ago

> Caring about your job is only acceptable if… This suggests that it's unacceptable to care about doing your job well because you enjoy it or simply because your morals compel you to work hard at what you do. I don't think there's anything wrong with someone choosing to work hard for these reasons if that's their choice.

ojhughes 3y ago

This is a terrible take, if you are passionate about your work then those 8 hours go a whole lot quicker. If you’re not passionate then I would question if the position is a good fit

mettamage 3y ago
People have to eat. Not everyone has a passion in the working realm. My passion would be to make music. I don't think I have the commercial instinct or drive to make a living out of it. Also, that might just destroy my passion. But you're right though, when I am in flow, those 8 hours go by a lot quicker :)
piva00 3y ago
I used to be passionate about coding at work, that gave me my first job, then my second, then some startups, big cos, and so on. At some point it doesn't really matter to try to keep yourself passionate about your job, you get enough experience, and you've seen how the maturity cycle of almost any tech company goes, in a general sense. At that point my passion for coding as a job disappeared, one just need to perform it well, professionally, and deliver what's expected of you for being paid to do it. Is it nicer to work in a product/organisation you are passionate about? Of course, it doesn't mean this passion will last, or that it will be rewarded, or that it will even be healthy for you (one of the jobs I burned out from was exactly the one I was the most passionate about). Building products follows the same patterns, even if the underlying technologies are different, or if you work on a product in a very different market/industry. It becomes all more of the same: store data somewhere, pull data from somewhere, transform some data to some other format, write some business logic, develop an interface, develop an application (web, desktop, mobile, embedded), deploy your systems at some server, monitor your systems (or implement telemetry if working embedded). You don't need to be passionate to work like that, you just need to be professional. By doing that you also avoid the common pitfall of being exploited because of your passion.
noirbot 3y ago
I don't think you necessarily disagree with them. The issue is most people don't have the option to find a position that's a good fit. Or you find out the companies with a mission you're passionate about have a work culture that you're not. If you're only working places you're passionate about, you're really winnowing the field of possible employers. I say this as someone who's working at a company I generally respect and am passionate about the product of - I think more than most of my friends who work in the field are about their work. If I wanted another job, there's not a huge pool of companies I would even want to apply to. If I lose my job, or quit, then I'm often going to need to apply and work somewhere that's not a good fit. I can hold out for a bit without a job, but there's no promise that another company I'm also passionate about is hiring for any position I'm qualified for. At the end of the day, I'd generally rather be programming somewhere I don't love than working as a bartender or delivery driver.

neilv 3y ago

> Your colleagues have the right attitude. They are doing the absolute bare minimum to collect a paycheck and go home. I suggest you do the same. We don't know that. That's one stereotype theory that comes to mind when we hear "big company", but that's not the only plausible explanation. Also, some people told to do the bare minimum at their jobs will think "Alrighty!" But the same advice could be very counterproductive for people who take pride in their craft or professionalism, or who want to see the mission happen. Those people should be nudged towards improving their situation (either at the current place, or somewhere else), not destroying their strengths.

agg23 3y ago

Passion can be good, but it must also be measured. I was in a similar situation for several years where I ended up running the show. Was super passionate about the project and doing all the things... Ended up horribly burnt out, to the point that I'm still struggling with the idea of working 2 years later.