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A large part of the bullshit that this industry has had to endure was exactly because a lot of front-end developers writing Javascript declared "we are all back

A large part of the bullshit that this industry has had to endure was exactly because a lot of front-end developers writing Javascript declared "we are all backend engineers now" and started using Node, thinking that UI development somehow translates to backend concepts. These are totally different areas of craft, like e-commerce vs game development.

Timon3 3y ago
But also many, many wonderful things came about because backend development became more approachable. You're right that inexperienced developers working in an environment they don't know produces a lot of horrible stuff, but that doesn't invalidate the good! And I wouldn't strictly differentiate between these areas. My game development experience helps me to write better backends and frontends alike. They are separate insofar that you have to learn each environment to be able to write idiomatic code, but it's not like you can't re-use parts of your knowledge across all of them.
- renegade-otter 3y ago
  I think the worst aspect of it is that the cohort of engineers was not taught to appreciate the complexity (of distributed systems in particular). This is something the industry is just trying to burry itself out of. It was a bad combination of "green" JS engineers writing servers and a new batch of fresh FAANG veterans mentoring them into writing extremely complex and expensive systems. There is a large dollar value attached to this fiasco.
  - Timon3 3y ago
    > I think the worst aspect of it is that the cohort of engineers was not taught to appreciate the complexity (of distributed systems in particular). This is something the industry is just trying to burry itself out of. It sounds like you have a bone to pick - because when was this ever not the case? Most developers of any generation don't really know about the complexity of distributed systems. Some developers do, even in "the cohort of engineers" who you say wasn't taught this. People using inexperienced (in the topic) developers for complex systems is not something new either. People use who they have.

Timon3 3y ago

But also many, many wonderful things came about because backend development became more approachable. You're right that inexperienced developers working in an environment they don't know produces a lot of horrible stuff, but that doesn't invalidate the good! And I wouldn't strictly differentiate between these areas. My game development experience helps me to write better backends and frontends alike. They are separate insofar that you have to learn each environment to be able to write idiomatic code, but it's not like you can't re-use parts of your knowledge across all of them.

renegade-otter 3y ago
I think the worst aspect of it is that the cohort of engineers was not taught to appreciate the complexity (of distributed systems in particular). This is something the industry is just trying to burry itself out of. It was a bad combination of "green" JS engineers writing servers and a new batch of fresh FAANG veterans mentoring them into writing extremely complex and expensive systems. There is a large dollar value attached to this fiasco.
- Timon3 3y ago
  > I think the worst aspect of it is that the cohort of engineers was not taught to appreciate the complexity (of distributed systems in particular). This is something the industry is just trying to burry itself out of. It sounds like you have a bone to pick - because when was this ever not the case? Most developers of any generation don't really know about the complexity of distributed systems. Some developers do, even in "the cohort of engineers" who you say wasn't taught this. People using inexperienced (in the topic) developers for complex systems is not something new either. People use who they have.