4 ms·

I first started writing software on contract in the mid-90's. It was a good time, full of C++ jobs and my skills and my market seemed to be in harmony. I put

by dabent 15y ago

I first started writing software on contract in the mid-90's. It was a good time, full of C++ jobs and my skills and my market seemed to be in harmony. I put my resume out there on the still-so-new-it-shined internet and immediately got over a dozen calls, the vast majority being from 3rd-party recruiters. I complained to my wife after the third call in a row and she explained to me that I should never be upset when someone called because they wanted to get me a job. She had endured a lot of unemployment in her family and a call from a recruiter was a cause for celebration, not complaint. From that point on, I've never complained about a call or email from a recruiter. 2002 and 2003 were some lean years for software jobs and those calls became few and far between. Now the phone is ringing again, and I don't even have my resume posted anywhere. Still, I won't complain and I haven't blocked emails from any recruiter. I actually go out of my way to respond to recruiters that seem halfway decent or better. A couple have expressed grateful surprise and I've made new connections that may work out in the future. The awful ones aren't blocked (at least none have been so awful to merit blocking so far), but I don't respond to them either. I just keep the channel open in case times do get lean once again. The third-party recruiter model may indeed be broken, and, with a few exceptions, isn't a fit for the startup world. It does however seem to work well enough for nearly every BigCo in existence and should I work for a BigCo on contract once again, I'll likely work through a third-party recruiter.

dustineichler 15y ago
If you're a consultant, you'll interface with recruiters a lot. I did. Of course your wife is ~right, it's a sound argument... BUT no job, however many opportunities are on your doorstep are any measure of security. eg - life preserver.
rogerbinns 15y ago
> ... when someone called because they wanted to get me a job She overestimates the bad recruiters. Recruiters have been known to advertise non-existent positions so they can build up their folios. They have been known to alter resumes to make it look like the candidate is a fit when they aren't. They have been known to lie about candidates. They have been known to try to make the candidates do all the work. They have been known to take jobs posted by companies that do want recruiters involved and then repost them (it makes them look better having these jobs on their books). My biggest grievance is them having put in zero effort to check if I am a match for the company or the company for me, despite the means to do so being readily available. ie they are wasting the time of everyone involved. More personal context http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3661261 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3661261
- devs1010 15y ago
  I agree, some recruiters are borderline scam artists so you can't just take it at face value that they have a job to offer and are interested in you, there can be more to it than that
- r00fus 15y ago
  The awful recruiter is nowhere near as unethical as the awful hiring manager. I know folks who were asked by the prospective "hiring manager" at companies like Cisco (for a contract gig) to basically show how they'd do the first 3 months of the job. Some replied with a load of work that they figure would put them ahead of the other candidates. All they got for their efforts was the sound of crickets on the other end... turns out the "hiring manager" was really just trolling for the candidates ideas and work output.
- dabent 15y ago
  Thanks for the comment. I noticed Modis on your list. Do you recall how they earned the spot? I've worked for them (granted, years ago) with no problem. I've had very few bad experiences - never had my resume submitted without approval, or had my resume edited. I do check out a recruiter before working for them and maybe my internal warning system works. Often I try to work for companies that offer insurance, which is a hurdle that fly-by-night shops can't clear. Protip: If a recruiter ever uses the term "DIRECT CLIENT" in an email, they are ignored, especially if it's in all caps. That seems to be a great filter for getting rid of bad recruiters. I'm not even sure why so many places use it.
  - rogerbinns 15y ago
    > I noticed Modis on your list. Do you recall how they earned the spot? They were added in February or March 2011. I don't record specifics as to why, but they all follow the same pattern - a useless content free email where it is obvious they have made no attempt to see if I am good match or the company is, despite the ease with which they could do that. The messages are usually almost indistinguishable from spam. They have to be pretty egregiously bad that I never want to hear from the recruiter ever again under any circumstances! See also http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3677709 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3677709
mikeash 15y ago
I can see not complaining about recruiters in general, but some are just really awful, e.g. soliciting for positions where the candidate is obviously not suitable, and just wasting everybody's time. When there's no chance that you'd get the position in the first place, they're not doing you any favors.
dredmorbius 15y ago
I've had recruiters submit me for positions I haven't approved (CrossCreek). Oh, yeah, repeatedly. And after I'd talked to them about it. Repeatedly. I've had them email me en mass for an opportunity (varite.com). Indian boiler-room VOIP indecipherable accents too numerous to mention (too numerous to mention). Grossly mis-fit pitches (wrong state, country, skillset). Recruiters who repeatedly call and leave messages (I expressly state my contact preferences, and have a pretty clear statement on my voicemail regarding same). Others in my spam list: aditi.com alphasolutionsinc.com andiamo-group.com artechinfo.co aurionpro.com greythorn-mail.com idexcel.com infobiagrouppanels.com infobiagroups.com kidawa.com mindlance.com myinfobiapanels.com omnikron.com panzersolutions.com streetdirectory.me tscti.com And I've worked with a handful of folks who are sincere, genuine, and turn up good leads. Best bet is of course personal contacts.
- ridonkulous 15y ago
  The biggest offenders in my experience were already on the main list. I recently had one who told me it was a huge problem that I needed 30 days between accepting the company's offer and actually starting due to existing agreements. I decided that a recruiter who wanted to argue with me over something like that (30-day delay to start a position that was expected to last 5 years) was not somebody I felt like ever talking to, ever again.

by dabent 15y ago

dustineichler 15y ago

If you're a consultant, you'll interface with recruiters a lot. I did. Of course your wife is ~right, it's a sound argument... BUT no job, however many opportunities are on your doorstep are any measure of security. eg - life preserver.

rogerbinns 15y ago

> ... when someone called because they wanted to get me a job She overestimates the bad recruiters. Recruiters have been known to advertise non-existent positions so they can build up their folios. They have been known to alter resumes to make it look like the candidate is a fit when they aren't. They have been known to lie about candidates. They have been known to try to make the candidates do all the work. They have been known to take jobs posted by companies that do want recruiters involved and then repost them (it makes them look better having these jobs on their books). My biggest grievance is them having put in zero effort to check if I am a match for the company or the company for me, despite the means to do so being readily available. ie they are wasting the time of everyone involved. More personal context http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3661261 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3661261

devs1010 15y ago
I agree, some recruiters are borderline scam artists so you can't just take it at face value that they have a job to offer and are interested in you, there can be more to it than that
r00fus 15y ago
The awful recruiter is nowhere near as unethical as the awful hiring manager. I know folks who were asked by the prospective "hiring manager" at companies like Cisco (for a contract gig) to basically show how they'd do the first 3 months of the job. Some replied with a load of work that they figure would put them ahead of the other candidates. All they got for their efforts was the sound of crickets on the other end... turns out the "hiring manager" was really just trolling for the candidates ideas and work output.
dabent 15y ago
Thanks for the comment. I noticed Modis on your list. Do you recall how they earned the spot? I've worked for them (granted, years ago) with no problem. I've had very few bad experiences - never had my resume submitted without approval, or had my resume edited. I do check out a recruiter before working for them and maybe my internal warning system works. Often I try to work for companies that offer insurance, which is a hurdle that fly-by-night shops can't clear. Protip: If a recruiter ever uses the term "DIRECT CLIENT" in an email, they are ignored, especially if it's in all caps. That seems to be a great filter for getting rid of bad recruiters. I'm not even sure why so many places use it.
- rogerbinns 15y ago
  > I noticed Modis on your list. Do you recall how they earned the spot? They were added in February or March 2011. I don't record specifics as to why, but they all follow the same pattern - a useless content free email where it is obvious they have made no attempt to see if I am good match or the company is, despite the ease with which they could do that. The messages are usually almost indistinguishable from spam. They have to be pretty egregiously bad that I never want to hear from the recruiter ever again under any circumstances! See also http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3677709 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3677709

mikeash 15y ago

I can see not complaining about recruiters in general, but some are just really awful, e.g. soliciting for positions where the candidate is obviously not suitable, and just wasting everybody's time. When there's no chance that you'd get the position in the first place, they're not doing you any favors.

dredmorbius 15y ago

I've had recruiters submit me for positions I haven't approved (CrossCreek). Oh, yeah, repeatedly. And after I'd talked to them about it. Repeatedly. I've had them email me en mass for an opportunity (varite.com). Indian boiler-room VOIP indecipherable accents too numerous to mention (too numerous to mention). Grossly mis-fit pitches (wrong state, country, skillset). Recruiters who repeatedly call and leave messages (I expressly state my contact preferences, and have a pretty clear statement on my voicemail regarding same). Others in my spam list: aditi.com alphasolutionsinc.com andiamo-group.com artechinfo.co aurionpro.com greythorn-mail.com idexcel.com infobiagrouppanels.com infobiagroups.com kidawa.com mindlance.com myinfobiapanels.com omnikron.com panzersolutions.com streetdirectory.me tscti.com And I've worked with a handful of folks who are sincere, genuine, and turn up good leads. Best bet is of course personal contacts.

ridonkulous 15y ago
The biggest offenders in my experience were already on the main list. I recently had one who told me it was a huge problem that I needed 30 days between accepting the company's offer and actually starting due to existing agreements. I decided that a recruiter who wanted to argue with me over something like that (30-day delay to start a position that was expected to last 5 years) was not somebody I felt like ever talking to, ever again.