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AI System Helped Cops ID a Drug Trafficker by Analyzing His Driving Patterns

shortrounddev2 3y ago
That's awesome > this case, Rekor helped police to assess the route that Zayas’ car was taking on a multi-year basis. The algorithm—which found that the driver was routinely making trips back and forth between Massachusetts and certain areas of upstate New York—determined that Zayas’ routes were “known to be used by narcotics pushers and [involved]...conspicuously short stays,” Forbes writes. As a result, the program deemed Zayas’s activity consistent with that of a drug trafficker. Years ago, when my girlfriend went to a different college than me, I drove 100 miles every weekend from my town to my state's capital city. I would show up, stay a couple hours, and then she would come home with me. At the end of the weekend, I drove her back. I did this every weekend. I wonder if the algorithm would think I was a drug trafficker
- dopamean 3y ago
  This reminds me of something I read many years ago as a teenager about getting inaccurate signals from analyzing phone data. The example it used was saying that the organizer of a Tupperware party's phone records would closely resemble those of a drug trafficker. I think the idea was to say emphasize that real investigations need more than just phone records.
  - pg_1234 3y ago
    Perhaps this should instead be seen as an indictment of Tupperware parties?
- jimlongton 3y ago
  No mention in the article of false positives. I wonder how many people they stopped and searched to get a result. I also wonder if the areas the suspect was visiting also overlap with poor or minority neighborhoods and what that means for those targetted.
- xhkkffbf 3y ago
  I don't think regular patterns are enough to trigger it. After all, many people regularly commute to work or school or some combination. I'm guessing that these trips were to places near the border where it's easy to smuggle drugs into the country. They may be to a place in the middle of nowhere. A college is a bustling place with plenty of kids coming and going, especially on weekends. You might be disappointed to learn just how commonplace you are. :-)
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Sounds like you’re a love trafficker.
- yesco 3y ago
  Or perhaps the case in the article was more of an example of parallel construction, rather than a true algorithmic-based investigation?
soupfordummies 3y ago
15 years ago these types of systems were very concerning even though they were to "stop terrorism." If they're just being used for drug dealers now... give me a break.
- jimlongton 3y ago
  It feels like we are finally at a tipping point of mass surveillance. The explosion in the prevalence of high quality street/traffic cameras, door bell cameras (that Amazon gives the police access to) and the growth of self driving cars (surveillance machines on wheels) are the final nails in the coffin of privacy which has been slowly dying since the start of the century. It's drug dealers now. It's not difficult to see states using this to target women who travel for abortions, people traveling to political events etc.
  - NoRelToEmber 3y ago
    But any time surveillance legislation comes up, the police say they have a "going dark" problem. Surely they're not lying?
  - stackedinserter 3y ago
    > It's drug dealers now. It's not difficult to see states using this to target women who travel for abortions, people traveling to political events etc. Mark my words, it will be even worse: our "social score" will be affected by our behavior and travel patterns, following rules that nobody, even their creators, know or understand. "Something that you're doing on every day basis is linked to people who do harm to society, here's your -0.1 scp/day".
  - skyyler 3y ago
    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article276848586.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-aler... It's already being used to target women who travel for abortions. We're already there!
- xkcd-sucks 3y ago
  As the drug war hype seems to be trending downward, expect the new boogeyman to be "domestic right-wing terrorism" or "child sex trafficking" depending on which party is in control
opwieurposiu 3y ago
I smell parallel construction.
zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
Everyone involved needs to be in prison ASAP
kneebonian 3y ago
Dupe from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36764389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36764389
ryaneager 3y ago
Does this not constitute an unreasonable search of his driving records? Does the fourth amendment not apply?
Imnimo 3y ago
I think whether or not this is legitimate would be made more clear if we cut out the AI middle man when explaining it. Rather than "cops have probable cause to search your car because an AI analyzed your driving patterns", say "cops have probable cause to search your car because you drove from X to Y three times last week", where that explanation is the minimum subset of your behavior that would still cause the AI to alert. If the explanation sounds like overbroad bullshit when expressed this way, it's still overbroad bullshit when you have an "AI" in the loop. Of course, there's also the separate question of whether you should be logging license plates with cameras all over the place...
mrguyorama 3y ago
So every single one of these types of "AI" systems would have a few percent chance of false positive. The cops buy twenty different "behavior analysis" wankery tools, and just run every single one against whoever they want, and pretty much ensure they get at least one false positive and take that to a judge to rubber stamp whatever warrant they want, so they can show up in the middle of the night, unannounced, and break down your door without warning so you think they are a robber and then they shoot you for non-compliance. Meanwhile, with the ability to get ANYONE'S web browsing, phone location records, and other horrifically broad sets of data that are just openly sold to law enforcement officers to allow them to spy on whatever they want with zero warrant, they STILL have an obscenely low clearance rate for crime. So what are they ACTUALLY doing with all those overtime hours we pay them for?

That's awesome > this case, Rekor helped police to assess the route that Zayas’ car was taking on a multi-year basis. The algorithm—which found that the driver was routinely making trips back and forth between Massachusetts and certain areas of upstate New York—determined that Zayas’ routes were “known to be used by narcotics pushers and [involved]...conspicuously short stays,” Forbes writes. As a result, the program deemed Zayas’s activity consistent with that of a drug trafficker. Years ago, when my girlfriend went to a different college than me, I drove 100 miles every weekend from my town to my state's capital city. I would show up, stay a couple hours, and then she would come home with me. At the end of the weekend, I drove her back. I did this every weekend. I wonder if the algorithm would think I was a drug trafficker

dopamean 3y ago
This reminds me of something I read many years ago as a teenager about getting inaccurate signals from analyzing phone data. The example it used was saying that the organizer of a Tupperware party's phone records would closely resemble those of a drug trafficker. I think the idea was to say emphasize that real investigations need more than just phone records.
- pg_1234 3y ago
  Perhaps this should instead be seen as an indictment of Tupperware parties?
jimlongton 3y ago
No mention in the article of false positives. I wonder how many people they stopped and searched to get a result. I also wonder if the areas the suspect was visiting also overlap with poor or minority neighborhoods and what that means for those targetted.
xhkkffbf 3y ago
I don't think regular patterns are enough to trigger it. After all, many people regularly commute to work or school or some combination. I'm guessing that these trips were to places near the border where it's easy to smuggle drugs into the country. They may be to a place in the middle of nowhere. A college is a bustling place with plenty of kids coming and going, especially on weekends. You might be disappointed to learn just how commonplace you are. :-)
mensetmanusman 3y ago
Sounds like you’re a love trafficker.
yesco 3y ago
Or perhaps the case in the article was more of an example of parallel construction, rather than a true algorithmic-based investigation?

soupfordummies 3y ago

15 years ago these types of systems were very concerning even though they were to "stop terrorism." If they're just being used for drug dealers now... give me a break.

jimlongton 3y ago
It feels like we are finally at a tipping point of mass surveillance. The explosion in the prevalence of high quality street/traffic cameras, door bell cameras (that Amazon gives the police access to) and the growth of self driving cars (surveillance machines on wheels) are the final nails in the coffin of privacy which has been slowly dying since the start of the century. It's drug dealers now. It's not difficult to see states using this to target women who travel for abortions, people traveling to political events etc.
- NoRelToEmber 3y ago
  But any time surveillance legislation comes up, the police say they have a "going dark" problem. Surely they're not lying?
- stackedinserter 3y ago
  > It's drug dealers now. It's not difficult to see states using this to target women who travel for abortions, people traveling to political events etc. Mark my words, it will be even worse: our "social score" will be affected by our behavior and travel patterns, following rules that nobody, even their creators, know or understand. "Something that you're doing on every day basis is linked to people who do harm to society, here's your -0.1 scp/day".
- skyyler 3y ago
  https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article276848586.html https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-aler... It's already being used to target women who travel for abortions. We're already there!
xkcd-sucks 3y ago
As the drug war hype seems to be trending downward, expect the new boogeyman to be "domestic right-wing terrorism" or "child sex trafficking" depending on which party is in control

opwieurposiu 3y ago

I smell parallel construction.

zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago

Everyone involved needs to be in prison ASAP

kneebonian 3y ago

Dupe from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36764389 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36764389

ryaneager 3y ago

Does this not constitute an unreasonable search of his driving records? Does the fourth amendment not apply?

Imnimo 3y ago

I think whether or not this is legitimate would be made more clear if we cut out the AI middle man when explaining it. Rather than "cops have probable cause to search your car because an AI analyzed your driving patterns", say "cops have probable cause to search your car because you drove from X to Y three times last week", where that explanation is the minimum subset of your behavior that would still cause the AI to alert. If the explanation sounds like overbroad bullshit when expressed this way, it's still overbroad bullshit when you have an "AI" in the loop. Of course, there's also the separate question of whether you should be logging license plates with cameras all over the place...

mrguyorama 3y ago

So every single one of these types of "AI" systems would have a few percent chance of false positive. The cops buy twenty different "behavior analysis" wankery tools, and just run every single one against whoever they want, and pretty much ensure they get at least one false positive and take that to a judge to rubber stamp whatever warrant they want, so they can show up in the middle of the night, unannounced, and break down your door without warning so you think they are a robber and then they shoot you for non-compliance. Meanwhile, with the ability to get ANYONE'S web browsing, phone location records, and other horrifically broad sets of data that are just openly sold to law enforcement officers to allow them to spy on whatever they want with zero warrant, they STILL have an obscenely low clearance rate for crime. So what are they ACTUALLY doing with all those overtime hours we pay them for?