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A programming language is a tool to get to the desired outcome. The 'best' programming language is one that allows me to get to my desired outcome the quickest,

A programming language is a tool to get to the desired outcome. The 'best' programming language is one that allows me to get to my desired outcome the quickest, with the fewest bugs and highest maintainability. For me (and, I would argue, for pretty much everyone), that would probably be whatever programming language I am most familiar with. Unless the language has huge barriers compared to another one I am somewhat familiar but less familiar with. I wish the dogmatic hate on JS would stop, it was boring 10 years ago, it's still boring.

happytoexplain 3y ago
I too wish the dogmatic hate of anything in particular would stop, but I also wish the stubborn assertion that the decades-long hate of JS is all dogmatic would stop. As long as JS is extremely wide-spread and has very stand-out negatives as compared to almost all other ecosystems, the hate will understandably continue.
Xeamek 3y ago
What's boring is your aproach. Even if that part of the desired outcome is true (it's not though, as it rarely takes into consideration long term benefits and focuses purely on "instant gratification"), people who go to online programming forums as HN are hobbyists. And hobbyists do care about tools. You can't expect enthusiast to have this boring approach of someone who simply want to finish job on passable level and get the fuck out of office as quickly as possible. And even if you are not a hobbyist, using a computer to do your/some job for you is literally what programming is about. So dismissing the topic of improving that process with better tools is simply ignorant
- Capricorn2481 3y ago
  A nice, bad faith read
  - Xeamek 3y ago
    How is this bad faith?
    - laputan_machine 3y ago
      You're assuming I'm not a hobbyist programmer (I am). Or that I don't take into account future requirements (I do). That I only care about a passable level of software (I am a big proponent of software craftsmanship... see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36586248#36587807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36586248#36587807, and also my original comment talked about maintainability...) In a hobbyist mentality, go wild! Do whatever makes you happy. In a professional, business environment I want to deliver outcomes first, my personal happiness comes from delivering those outcomes so it matters less on the technical choice.
randomdata 3y ago
Typescript is the language I am most familiar with (and Javascript before that, going back to the early Netscape days), being the language I use like 90% of the time in the work I do, but it unquestionably won't be the quickest way to the desired outcome for me. I'm way more productive in certain other languages, even when I only use them infrequently. The Typescript/Javascript tooling is just not there to support efficient, bug free, and maintainable development. The Javascript hate is absolutely warranted.

happytoexplain 3y ago

I too wish the dogmatic hate of anything in particular would stop, but I also wish the stubborn assertion that the decades-long hate of JS is all dogmatic would stop. As long as JS is extremely wide-spread and has very stand-out negatives as compared to almost all other ecosystems, the hate will understandably continue.

Xeamek 3y ago

What's boring is your aproach. Even if that part of the desired outcome is true (it's not though, as it rarely takes into consideration long term benefits and focuses purely on "instant gratification"), people who go to online programming forums as HN are hobbyists. And hobbyists do care about tools. You can't expect enthusiast to have this boring approach of someone who simply want to finish job on passable level and get the fuck out of office as quickly as possible. And even if you are not a hobbyist, using a computer to do your/some job for you is literally what programming is about. So dismissing the topic of improving that process with better tools is simply ignorant

Capricorn2481 3y ago
A nice, bad faith read
- Xeamek 3y ago
  How is this bad faith?
  - laputan_machine 3y ago
    You're assuming I'm not a hobbyist programmer (I am). Or that I don't take into account future requirements (I do). That I only care about a passable level of software (I am a big proponent of software craftsmanship... see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36586248#36587807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36586248#36587807, and also my original comment talked about maintainability...) In a hobbyist mentality, go wild! Do whatever makes you happy. In a professional, business environment I want to deliver outcomes first, my personal happiness comes from delivering those outcomes so it matters less on the technical choice.

randomdata 3y ago

Typescript is the language I am most familiar with (and Javascript before that, going back to the early Netscape days), being the language I use like 90% of the time in the work I do, but it unquestionably won't be the quickest way to the desired outcome for me. I'm way more productive in certain other languages, even when I only use them infrequently. The Typescript/Javascript tooling is just not there to support efficient, bug free, and maintainable development. The Javascript hate is absolutely warranted.