5 ms·

VanMoof, the e-bike startup, officially declared bankrupt in The Netherlands

53 points by the-dude 3y ago

the-dude 3y ago
The URL is funnier than the title : vanmoof-goes-vanpoof-bankruptcy
nubinetwork 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 And slightly related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328
- veidr 3y ago
  I have avid interest in this topic, so I clicked all your links, but I think your comment would be more helpful to the broader audience if you included some reference what those links were about, like this: 1. "OpenMoof: Keeping VanMoof Bikes Mooving" → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328 2. "Owners of troubled VanMoof e-bikes get their software keys from rival company" (arstechnica.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 3. "Dutch e-bike maker VanMoof bankrupt" (reuters.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 4. "VanMoof e-bikes is bankrupt" (theverge.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 5. "VanMoof Bankruptcy Statement in Full" (reprehensiblecunts.com) -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413
jbm 3y ago
How does a 4000$+ ebike go bankrupt when they supposedly have too many orders? Is this a COVID supply chain problem or a management hiding real sales figures problem? -edit- > VanMoof bikes, however, offload many of their configuration functions to a smartphone app and are much easier to unlock with a phone than manually ouch
- dazc 3y ago
  'How does a 4000$+ ebike go bankrupt when they supposedly have too many orders? Is this a COVID supply chain problem or a management hiding real sales figures problem?' Possibly both but if you have significantly more customers than product you're going to run out of cash eventually. Not bike related but I work with a UK retailer that has this problem with some high value products shipped from China/Vietnam. When they do get stock they start to discount it almost immediately, I assume they are either crazy or that their cash-flow is more critical than profit.
  - wklm 3y ago
    Scare liquidity is an issue all across europe rn, stemming from high cost of capital
    - hef19898 3y ago
      For companies relying on investor money to stay afloat, yes. And not just in Europe, that goes for everyone everywhere. If demand exceeds capacity, as was the case with VanMoof apparently, cash flow should be positive so. Any capacity incrwases, assuming there is real demand, are also finacable through traditional means. Unless of course, you screw up your supply chain, as a manufavturing / hardware company cash flow is to a huge extent driven by that. And yes, at 4k a bike, a company has an easier time staying cash positive that at, say, 200.
  - elaus 3y ago
    > if you have significantly more customers than product you're going to run out of cash eventually I don't get this. Why do you run out of cash simply because there's more demand than you have production capacity? I would think having open orders doesn't cost money.
    - netsharc 3y ago
      Linus (Tech Tips) has a video talking about cash flow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxbc1IN9Gg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxbc1IN9Gg
lm28469 3y ago
Throwback to the time my friends were all recommending these bikes and I told them anything that has a proprietary battery and app will be e-junk decades before its natural death
- veidr 3y ago
  In the specific case of VanMoof, their app isn't strictly required after the bike is set up initially. But the point of the battery is dead-on. Unfortunately, AFAIK virtually all ebikes on the market use proprietary batteries. Do you know of any that don't?
  - achikin 3y ago
    Any bike that uses Bosch battery/motor kits. Those batteries are available on the market separately.
    - veidr 3y ago
      Oh cool, thanks. I know about those batteries, but I thought they were usually for conversion kits / DIY ebikes. But this page shows several makers that use them: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/ebike-models#category=2 https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/ebike-models#category... Unfortunately for me, I don't think any of those are sold where I live (Japan). But a standard motor/battery would definitely be a major plus in my book when looking for a bike to buy. UPDATE: Actually, Cannondale does market a Bosch-powered, roughly-VanMoof-grade bike here in Japan: https://www.cannondale.com/ja-jp/bikes/electric/e-urban/adventure-neo/adventure-neo-3-eq-c68361u https://www.cannondale.com/ja-jp/bikes/electric/e-urban/adve...
      - achikin 3y ago
        You can check Bosch Chinese competitor Bafang - they copy Bosch solutions and also very popular among bicycle makers. https://bafang-e.com/en/home/ https://bafang-e.com/en/home/
tomalaci 3y ago
For those who don't know, this company was a bit special in that they apparently employed "bike hunters" to go and steal your e-bike back if it was stolen [1]. It's quite an interesting dynamic considering that police in many places won't bother retrieving your bike even if you have GPS tracker on it, simply telling you to let insurance handle it. [1] https://www.vanmoof.com/en-SE/peace-of-mind https://www.vanmoof.com/en-SE/peace-of-mind
- markvaneijk 3y ago
  This is a smart marketing move and also a possibility to create extra funds for the company upfront. But as it turns out, unfortunately the company had its finances not in order.
- achikin 3y ago
  Many people didn’t lock their vanmoofs because of that. It made no sense to steal, but now when thieves know that vanmoof went bankrupt - they are stolen in enormous amounts.
  - roel_v 3y ago
    Why would they? The resale value has plummeted because they're both prone to breakage and basically unserviceable.
    - vanderZwan 3y ago
      I wonder if they're really stolen or just reported stolen.
      - achikin 3y ago
        100% stolen. Two were stolen from my neighbours in Amsterdam this month, one of them just yesterday.
        vanderZwan 3y ago
te_chris 3y ago
I ended up buying an Analog Motion e-bike in 2020 when they were doing a kickstarter. It’s the best, but the company has really struggled despite all the demand. We invested a small amount in the equity crowd funding round off the back of the quality of the bike, but supply chains for small players seem almost impossible. Seeing the above always worried me about van moof. Yes they were better funded, but they were still in the same market, plus their bikes had loads of smart crap. analog motion bikes are just single speeds with motors and a few nice touches - belt drive, disc brakes. If they went under nothing would change.
iSnow 3y ago
Sad to see them go, I liked their design very much. I wasn't in the market for an e-bike yet, but I would have considered a VanMoof. However: >they can end up bricked in their basic state, since their working is tied closely to the use of the VanMoof app, and the VanMoof app will not continue to be supported. This is not the future I signed up for. Even if someone hacked around their electronic locking now, that's just not a state of affairs that should be accepted. That is a version of "you'll own nothing" where I decidedly would be unhappy considering the price of their bike.
- lm28469 3y ago
  The app is the least of your problem, you won't find parts for maintenance because a lot of them are custom.
  - veidr 3y ago
    This is true, but I mean, it's a bicycle. The maintenance in 4 years of daily-driving my VanMoof X2 has been some grease, and new brake pads. But as somebody else said in this thread, the battery is another matter. Once that goes, that's probably the end of its useful life as a commuter bike. I thought about getting an extra battery now while I still can, but I (like, I suspect, most people buying these rather pricey bikes) probably don't plan to stick with e-bike tech that is 5+ years old. Since 2008, my 2019 VanMoof is my 4th ebike. And man is each generation hugely better than the last. These ebikes basically improving at a similar rate as iPhones, and it's pretty great.
    - achikin 3y ago
      I’ve heard that the biggest complaint is the automatic gear shifter which broke quite frequently.
      - veidr 3y ago
        Oof, yeah, it would definitely suck if that broke, and couldn't be replaced.
dhruvrrp 3y ago
Seems to be specifically the Dutch entity. I wonder how this would affect their USA business, since i see VanMoof bikes pretty often in Seattle
- debarshri 3y ago
  US entity was probably a subsidiary of the Dutch BV
throwaway4good 3y ago
There are few of these e-bike companies which are basically marketing, branding, sales sitting on top of Chinese suppliers. I think they are getting squeezed and soon you will be buying Chinese brands (like Xiaomi) sold from chain electronics stores or their own website. It has already happened with e scooters.
- _zmt5 3y ago
  These bikes were actually made in Taiwan.
vessenes 3y ago
I own one of these. It would be very, very nice if the app got opened up for existing bike owners.
- veidr 3y ago
  You've probably found them already, but there are several third-party apps referenced in this thread. (And probably more useful than the VanMoof app is/was.)
_zmt5 3y ago
The one thing I never understood about the appeal of these bikes is the battery: it cannot be removed, so you cannot easily take the battery inside and charge it overnight like you can with all other bikes. This is a major inconvenience.
- woile 3y ago
  I feel the same. The fear with removable batteries is that they can be stolen. But every time my brother comes with this bike, he has to bring it inside to charge it. Not very nice indeed
JoeAltmaier 3y ago
A bike with DRM? It deserved to die.
- veidr 3y ago
  There's no DRM. That seems to be a recurring misconception here. It wasn't open-source or anything, but there were already third-party apps for the bike. It's more a matter of the parts that were proprietary (motor, battery, electric clutch) becoming hard to replace once they fail. (As mentioned above, though, you'll need to download your bike's details while VanMoof is still alive in order to be able to connect third party apps to it.)
bborud 3y ago
The basic problem is that their bikes are not good value for money. They look cool, but they are very basic bikes (despite various bells and whistles) and they have lots of custom parts. I think the VanMoof bikes looked really nice and had an interesting design. But unless you live in Amsterdam, they were not a good choice for a bike and definitively not a bike you can depend on. They are only suitable for riding on fairly flat roads. Which is OK for many cities, but it does limit their usefulness. They are what I think of as "novelty bikes". Sure, they are good looking and if you only need to ride around a mostly flat city with good road surfaces, you'll be fine. But a lot of places are not like that. I got tired of riding low quality "novelty bikes" last year and got a hardtail with a Bosch CX motor. Bikes are expensive, so when you do buy a bike and, like me, you are going to ride it all year round, you need something that has "mainstream" parts. Because you are going to wear stuff out. This winter, despite cleaning my bike often (and using appropriate lubricants) I wore out chain, cassette, brakes and a couple of bearings. I rode 10-20 miles per day with lots of elevation both directions) just for work and errands, and on top of that I used the bike for exercise. In anything from 35C and sunshine to snow storms and temperatures as low as -25C (on studded tyres). More often that not the coastal weather where I live is wet cold and hovering somewhere around 0C. Given my use I expect to spend $200-300 per year on stuff that wears out. The real question is how long the really expensive bits, like the motor is going to last. I fully expect to have to tear down the motor in a couple of years to have the bearings replaced and possibly deal with water ingress. But I'm not too worried because given the huge deployed base of Bosch CX motors there is already significant knowledge base on how to deal with problems. If you want to make a good bike that can be a workhorse, you have to start with high volume parts in all the places that are subject to intensive wear. You need something that can be replaced at sensible cost and that bicycle repair shops are likely to have in their inventory. This is especially true for components like the motor. Within 10 minutes bike ride from where I live there are almost half a dozen bike shops that can service my bike. The closest just up the road, located beside the grocery store I visit every day. If I have a problem I can usually get it fixed within a day. Choose bicycles like you architect robust systems. Go for good, well known parts that a lot of people know how to deal with. Don't get fancy unless what you can offer is significantly better under real conditions. In this sense, VanMoof was never a competitive proposition. It was marginal at best. If you want to design a new bike, give careful thought to the system architecture. I think this presents a brilliant learning opportunity.
devn0ll 3y ago
I would say that this company is a prime example why "right to repair" should be the default. Companies go bankrupt all the time but that should not mean the end of the product you bought and own for as long as you can fix thing yourself. p.s. They mention they are "proud" of what they accomplished. In light of all the e-waste they have generated, I would dial that way down...
- veidr 3y ago
  What do you mean? You have every right to repair your VanMoof; they not only didn't try to stop me, they actively encouraged me to do it myself or just go to a local bike shop every time I called them for service. I know it's a common (and shitty) thing these days, but in this case, it isn't like the bikes are going to stop working. I think this article sort of implied (without really saying) that would happen, but it won't. It's theoretically possible that you could "brick" a VanMoof bike by: 1. locking it with the VanMoof app 2. forgetting your hardware unlock code 3. not downloading your bike token/passcode, thus preventing third-party apps from connecting to it 4. waiting for VanMoof to be gone, so you could no longer get the bike details , and thus would never be able to use any third party app ...except that the hardware unlock code is only 3 digits, so you might be able to brute force that if you really wanted to (?) It's possible you could get the bike locked to "0 power assist" setting, though, and never be able to change it, so that's why I strongly recommend all VanMoof bike owners to download their bike details[1] ASAP so that they can use third party apps to manage those things. [1]: https://keyexporter.grossartig.io https://keyexporter.grossartig.io
gyrccc 3y ago
Sad news. I really wanted them to succeed. Their hardware engineering and design were top-notch. I test rode a VanMoof S3 three years ago and it was incomparable to other bikes. The integration of every single component into the frame and design was unparalleled, the smoothness of the automatic gear shifts felt magical. But for me these features erred on the side of "nice-to-haves" and I ended up purchasing a "traditional" but more expensive e-bike that had the essential features I valued as a commuter (in New York); namely, more range for winter, more speed and torque going uphill, and a removable battery for carrying. I had really hoped VanMoof could improve on these areas with newer models but it never happened. They continued to iterate on their strengths of beautiful integration using bespoke components, but didn't meaningfully improve any essential features at all. Currently, I have 3 commuter e-bikes in the family of different brands, drivetrain technologies, and price points. None come close to the level of polish and craftsmanship the VanMoof S3 had; if only it was better at being a bike. Thinking more broadly about VanMoof's downfall, I think the commuter e-bike market might just too small and too competitive. Anecdotally, I still see about 10x more road bikes than commuter e-bikes today on the road, no change over the past 3 years, but the number of subscription e-bikes (citi bike) has skyrocketed.
- blackbeans 3y ago
  VanMoof did improve technically with their S5. However they also mentioned they had a 10% return rate on their older S3, which probably was very costly. Also they never had a dealer/service network like other brands have in Europe as they were B2C. Your requirements (more range, more torque, removable battery) are specific to your region. As VanMoof is sold a lot in The Netherlands, a flat country where people make short trips, the bike specification actually made a lot of sense (bigger batteries add weight and cost and removable batteries make frames more bulky). An alternative could be Cowboy.
_nalply 3y ago
I had a tandem upgraded with a BionX electric motor. About 18 months later, the motor lost its punch and I asked the bike shop for help. But then BionX went bankrupt and the shop couldn't fix the tandem. They removed the electric motor and refunded me.

53 points by the-dude 3y ago

The URL is funnier than the title : vanmoof-goes-vanpoof-bankruptcy

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 And slightly related https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328

veidr 3y ago
I have avid interest in this topic, so I clicked all your links, but I think your comment would be more helpful to the broader audience if you included some reference what those links were about, like this: 1. "OpenMoof: Keeping VanMoof Bikes Mooving" → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769328 2. "Owners of troubled VanMoof e-bikes get their software keys from rival company" (arstechnica.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36769299 3. "Dutch e-bike maker VanMoof bankrupt" (reuters.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768930 4. "VanMoof e-bikes is bankrupt" (theverge.com) → https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768703 5. "VanMoof Bankruptcy Statement in Full" (reprehensiblecunts.com) -> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36768413

jbm 3y ago

How does a 4000$+ ebike go bankrupt when they supposedly have too many orders? Is this a COVID supply chain problem or a management hiding real sales figures problem? -edit- > VanMoof bikes, however, offload many of their configuration functions to a smartphone app and are much easier to unlock with a phone than manually ouch

dazc 3y ago
'How does a 4000$+ ebike go bankrupt when they supposedly have too many orders? Is this a COVID supply chain problem or a management hiding real sales figures problem?' Possibly both but if you have significantly more customers than product you're going to run out of cash eventually. Not bike related but I work with a UK retailer that has this problem with some high value products shipped from China/Vietnam. When they do get stock they start to discount it almost immediately, I assume they are either crazy or that their cash-flow is more critical than profit.
- wklm 3y ago
  Scare liquidity is an issue all across europe rn, stemming from high cost of capital
  - hef19898 3y ago
    For companies relying on investor money to stay afloat, yes. And not just in Europe, that goes for everyone everywhere. If demand exceeds capacity, as was the case with VanMoof apparently, cash flow should be positive so. Any capacity incrwases, assuming there is real demand, are also finacable through traditional means. Unless of course, you screw up your supply chain, as a manufavturing / hardware company cash flow is to a huge extent driven by that. And yes, at 4k a bike, a company has an easier time staying cash positive that at, say, 200.
- elaus 3y ago
  > if you have significantly more customers than product you're going to run out of cash eventually I don't get this. Why do you run out of cash simply because there's more demand than you have production capacity? I would think having open orders doesn't cost money.
  - netsharc 3y ago
    Linus (Tech Tips) has a video talking about cash flow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxbc1IN9Gg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSxbc1IN9Gg

lm28469 3y ago

Throwback to the time my friends were all recommending these bikes and I told them anything that has a proprietary battery and app will be e-junk decades before its natural death

veidr 3y ago
In the specific case of VanMoof, their app isn't strictly required after the bike is set up initially. But the point of the battery is dead-on. Unfortunately, AFAIK virtually all ebikes on the market use proprietary batteries. Do you know of any that don't?
- achikin 3y ago
  Any bike that uses Bosch battery/motor kits. Those batteries are available on the market separately.
  - veidr 3y ago
    Oh cool, thanks. I know about those batteries, but I thought they were usually for conversion kits / DIY ebikes. But this page shows several makers that use them: https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/ebike-models#category=2 https://www.bosch-ebike.com/us/service/ebike-models#category... Unfortunately for me, I don't think any of those are sold where I live (Japan). But a standard motor/battery would definitely be a major plus in my book when looking for a bike to buy. UPDATE: Actually, Cannondale does market a Bosch-powered, roughly-VanMoof-grade bike here in Japan: https://www.cannondale.com/ja-jp/bikes/electric/e-urban/adventure-neo/adventure-neo-3-eq-c68361u https://www.cannondale.com/ja-jp/bikes/electric/e-urban/adve...
    - achikin 3y ago
      You can check Bosch Chinese competitor Bafang - they copy Bosch solutions and also very popular among bicycle makers. https://bafang-e.com/en/home/ https://bafang-e.com/en/home/

tomalaci 3y ago

For those who don't know, this company was a bit special in that they apparently employed "bike hunters" to go and steal your e-bike back if it was stolen [1]. It's quite an interesting dynamic considering that police in many places won't bother retrieving your bike even if you have GPS tracker on it, simply telling you to let insurance handle it. [1] https://www.vanmoof.com/en-SE/peace-of-mind https://www.vanmoof.com/en-SE/peace-of-mind

markvaneijk 3y ago
This is a smart marketing move and also a possibility to create extra funds for the company upfront. But as it turns out, unfortunately the company had its finances not in order.
achikin 3y ago
Many people didn’t lock their vanmoofs because of that. It made no sense to steal, but now when thieves know that vanmoof went bankrupt - they are stolen in enormous amounts.
- roel_v 3y ago
  Why would they? The resale value has plummeted because they're both prone to breakage and basically unserviceable.
  - vanderZwan 3y ago
    I wonder if they're really stolen or just reported stolen.
    - achikin 3y ago
      100% stolen. Two were stolen from my neighbours in Amsterdam this month, one of them just yesterday.
      - vanderZwan 3y ago

te_chris 3y ago

I ended up buying an Analog Motion e-bike in 2020 when they were doing a kickstarter. It’s the best, but the company has really struggled despite all the demand. We invested a small amount in the equity crowd funding round off the back of the quality of the bike, but supply chains for small players seem almost impossible. Seeing the above always worried me about van moof. Yes they were better funded, but they were still in the same market, plus their bikes had loads of smart crap. analog motion bikes are just single speeds with motors and a few nice touches - belt drive, disc brakes. If they went under nothing would change.

iSnow 3y ago

Sad to see them go, I liked their design very much. I wasn't in the market for an e-bike yet, but I would have considered a VanMoof. However: >they can end up bricked in their basic state, since their working is tied closely to the use of the VanMoof app, and the VanMoof app will not continue to be supported. This is not the future I signed up for. Even if someone hacked around their electronic locking now, that's just not a state of affairs that should be accepted. That is a version of "you'll own nothing" where I decidedly would be unhappy considering the price of their bike.

lm28469 3y ago
The app is the least of your problem, you won't find parts for maintenance because a lot of them are custom.
- veidr 3y ago
  This is true, but I mean, it's a bicycle. The maintenance in 4 years of daily-driving my VanMoof X2 has been some grease, and new brake pads. But as somebody else said in this thread, the battery is another matter. Once that goes, that's probably the end of its useful life as a commuter bike. I thought about getting an extra battery now while I still can, but I (like, I suspect, most people buying these rather pricey bikes) probably don't plan to stick with e-bike tech that is 5+ years old. Since 2008, my 2019 VanMoof is my 4th ebike. And man is each generation hugely better than the last. These ebikes basically improving at a similar rate as iPhones, and it's pretty great.
  - achikin 3y ago
    I’ve heard that the biggest complaint is the automatic gear shifter which broke quite frequently.
    - veidr 3y ago
      Oof, yeah, it would definitely suck if that broke, and couldn't be replaced.

dhruvrrp 3y ago

Seems to be specifically the Dutch entity. I wonder how this would affect their USA business, since i see VanMoof bikes pretty often in Seattle

debarshri 3y ago
US entity was probably a subsidiary of the Dutch BV

throwaway4good 3y ago

There are few of these e-bike companies which are basically marketing, branding, sales sitting on top of Chinese suppliers. I think they are getting squeezed and soon you will be buying Chinese brands (like Xiaomi) sold from chain electronics stores or their own website. It has already happened with e scooters.

_zmt5 3y ago
These bikes were actually made in Taiwan.

vessenes 3y ago

I own one of these. It would be very, very nice if the app got opened up for existing bike owners.

veidr 3y ago
You've probably found them already, but there are several third-party apps referenced in this thread. (And probably more useful than the VanMoof app is/was.)

_zmt5 3y ago

The one thing I never understood about the appeal of these bikes is the battery: it cannot be removed, so you cannot easily take the battery inside and charge it overnight like you can with all other bikes. This is a major inconvenience.

woile 3y ago
I feel the same. The fear with removable batteries is that they can be stolen. But every time my brother comes with this bike, he has to bring it inside to charge it. Not very nice indeed

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

A bike with DRM? It deserved to die.

veidr 3y ago
There's no DRM. That seems to be a recurring misconception here. It wasn't open-source or anything, but there were already third-party apps for the bike. It's more a matter of the parts that were proprietary (motor, battery, electric clutch) becoming hard to replace once they fail. (As mentioned above, though, you'll need to download your bike's details while VanMoof is still alive in order to be able to connect third party apps to it.)

bborud 3y ago

The basic problem is that their bikes are not good value for money. They look cool, but they are very basic bikes (despite various bells and whistles) and they have lots of custom parts. I think the VanMoof bikes looked really nice and had an interesting design. But unless you live in Amsterdam, they were not a good choice for a bike and definitively not a bike you can depend on. They are only suitable for riding on fairly flat roads. Which is OK for many cities, but it does limit their usefulness. They are what I think of as "novelty bikes". Sure, they are good looking and if you only need to ride around a mostly flat city with good road surfaces, you'll be fine. But a lot of places are not like that. I got tired of riding low quality "novelty bikes" last year and got a hardtail with a Bosch CX motor. Bikes are expensive, so when you do buy a bike and, like me, you are going to ride it all year round, you need something that has "mainstream" parts. Because you are going to wear stuff out. This winter, despite cleaning my bike often (and using appropriate lubricants) I wore out chain, cassette, brakes and a couple of bearings. I rode 10-20 miles per day with lots of elevation both directions) just for work and errands, and on top of that I used the bike for exercise. In anything from 35C and sunshine to snow storms and temperatures as low as -25C (on studded tyres). More often that not the coastal weather where I live is wet cold and hovering somewhere around 0C. Given my use I expect to spend $200-300 per year on stuff that wears out. The real question is how long the really expensive bits, like the motor is going to last. I fully expect to have to tear down the motor in a couple of years to have the bearings replaced and possibly deal with water ingress. But I'm not too worried because given the huge deployed base of Bosch CX motors there is already significant knowledge base on how to deal with problems. If you want to make a good bike that can be a workhorse, you have to start with high volume parts in all the places that are subject to intensive wear. You need something that can be replaced at sensible cost and that bicycle repair shops are likely to have in their inventory. This is especially true for components like the motor. Within 10 minutes bike ride from where I live there are almost half a dozen bike shops that can service my bike. The closest just up the road, located beside the grocery store I visit every day. If I have a problem I can usually get it fixed within a day. Choose bicycles like you architect robust systems. Go for good, well known parts that a lot of people know how to deal with. Don't get fancy unless what you can offer is significantly better under real conditions. In this sense, VanMoof was never a competitive proposition. It was marginal at best. If you want to design a new bike, give careful thought to the system architecture. I think this presents a brilliant learning opportunity.

devn0ll 3y ago

I would say that this company is a prime example why "right to repair" should be the default. Companies go bankrupt all the time but that should not mean the end of the product you bought and own for as long as you can fix thing yourself. p.s. They mention they are "proud" of what they accomplished. In light of all the e-waste they have generated, I would dial that way down...

veidr 3y ago
What do you mean? You have every right to repair your VanMoof; they not only didn't try to stop me, they actively encouraged me to do it myself or just go to a local bike shop every time I called them for service. I know it's a common (and shitty) thing these days, but in this case, it isn't like the bikes are going to stop working. I think this article sort of implied (without really saying) that would happen, but it won't. It's theoretically possible that you could "brick" a VanMoof bike by: 1. locking it with the VanMoof app 2. forgetting your hardware unlock code 3. not downloading your bike token/passcode, thus preventing third-party apps from connecting to it 4. waiting for VanMoof to be gone, so you could no longer get the bike details , and thus would never be able to use any third party app ...except that the hardware unlock code is only 3 digits, so you might be able to brute force that if you really wanted to (?) It's possible you could get the bike locked to "0 power assist" setting, though, and never be able to change it, so that's why I strongly recommend all VanMoof bike owners to download their bike details[1] ASAP so that they can use third party apps to manage those things. [1]: https://keyexporter.grossartig.io https://keyexporter.grossartig.io

gyrccc 3y ago

Sad news. I really wanted them to succeed. Their hardware engineering and design were top-notch. I test rode a VanMoof S3 three years ago and it was incomparable to other bikes. The integration of every single component into the frame and design was unparalleled, the smoothness of the automatic gear shifts felt magical. But for me these features erred on the side of "nice-to-haves" and I ended up purchasing a "traditional" but more expensive e-bike that had the essential features I valued as a commuter (in New York); namely, more range for winter, more speed and torque going uphill, and a removable battery for carrying. I had really hoped VanMoof could improve on these areas with newer models but it never happened. They continued to iterate on their strengths of beautiful integration using bespoke components, but didn't meaningfully improve any essential features at all. Currently, I have 3 commuter e-bikes in the family of different brands, drivetrain technologies, and price points. None come close to the level of polish and craftsmanship the VanMoof S3 had; if only it was better at being a bike. Thinking more broadly about VanMoof's downfall, I think the commuter e-bike market might just too small and too competitive. Anecdotally, I still see about 10x more road bikes than commuter e-bikes today on the road, no change over the past 3 years, but the number of subscription e-bikes (citi bike) has skyrocketed.

blackbeans 3y ago
VanMoof did improve technically with their S5. However they also mentioned they had a 10% return rate on their older S3, which probably was very costly. Also they never had a dealer/service network like other brands have in Europe as they were B2C. Your requirements (more range, more torque, removable battery) are specific to your region. As VanMoof is sold a lot in The Netherlands, a flat country where people make short trips, the bike specification actually made a lot of sense (bigger batteries add weight and cost and removable batteries make frames more bulky). An alternative could be Cowboy.

_nalply 3y ago

I had a tandem upgraded with a BionX electric motor. About 18 months later, the motor lost its punch and I asked the bike shop for help. But then BionX went bankrupt and the shop couldn't fix the tandem. They removed the electric motor and refunded me.