6 ms·

Microsoft had a good licensing model that sort of worked. Instead, they are going towards selling malware for free or at a very low cost to manufacturers. It is

Microsoft had a good licensing model that sort of worked. Instead, they are going towards selling malware for free or at a very low cost to manufacturers. It is kind of sad. The UX on Windows 10 for me still feels better for an average Joe compared to Apple and Gnome or KDE. Windows 10 also had WSL2 which made it an okay development system. Then they made a UI that sort of drifted off into something unknown and put in a bunch of telemetry and spyware. Their browser is now riddled with ads. Microsoft and Google have such talent, then talent that is basically making large surveillance software at this point.

p-e-w 3y ago
> Microsoft had a good licensing model that sort of worked. Microsoft is the second-most valuable company in the world, with revenue comparable to the GDP of a small country. Seems like it's still working quite well.
- jeltz 3y ago
  They also had a similar valuation with the old non-abusive model so that does not contradict the grandparent comment.
- belter 3y ago
  "With high quality software that everybody loves" - Said no one ever...
- Teever 3y ago
  The secret ingredient is crime. Microsoft is as big as if is today because it broke the law in the past and avoided severe punishment from the DoJ.
  - silverpepsi 3y ago
    I'm reading this comment as opposition to the rule of law The law they broke is of the type where you can't be known if what you're doing is allowed or not in advance. Dictatorships love these sorts of laws, but unfortunately in the West companies are made to deal with a bunch of them
    - jasonjayr 3y ago
      With all the privileges granted to these companies in the west, shouldn't they also bear some responsibilities to continue to serve the public fairly as well?
- blibble 3y ago
  > Seems like it's still working quite well. one could say the same about exxonmobil, chevron and haliburton
  - p-e-w 3y ago
    Really? I remember when Exxon was the world's most valuable company. It's not even in the top 10 anymore.
    - chrisandchris 3y ago
      Isn't that the point? Today does not tell about tomorrow. Maybe Microsoft isn't in the Top N anymore in a couple of years.
  - midoridensha 3y ago
    Exactly; these are highly successful companies. Sure, they're destroying the planet and leading us to doom, but they're giving the people what they want. Just look at the discussion here today about how awful cars and parking are, and how many people trash public transit and walkable cities because they like their cars and driving everywhere. The problem isn't big corporations, the problem is regular, everyday people.
    - catboybotnet 3y ago
      they are not wrong, though. from my time in the US, unless you're lucky and decide to stay in a city with half-decent public transport, you NEED a car to get around. No busses, no trains, no trams, only ever-expanding highways and stroads. these companies spent a whole century destroying public transport to sell more cars. they spend that century spreading propaganda about cars, bribing politicians (or lobbying as you like to call it), and completely redoing the entire infrastructure of a major world power for... more money. you cannot blame the people being exploited for having to buy into a system they cannot do without, in a country where public transport is just a hollow imitation of itself from the past. again, they spent trillions to get things how they are now! government propaganda since the red scare hasn't been as effective as this.
LoganDark 3y ago
> Windows 10 also had WSL2 which made it an okay development system. To be honest, I would have preferred WSL1 which implemented the syscalls directly under Windows for the best possible integration, but they eventually just threw that away and switched to using virtual machines!
- ht85 3y ago
  To be honest, I would prefer to have my guts sprayed with honey and exposed to a large colony of ants.
- rootw0rm 3y ago
  agreed, WSL1 was an ambitious, cool project
  - dspillett 3y ago
    Agreed, but I could never get past the thought “all the friendliness of Unix, all the security & stability¹ of Windows”! -- [1] never trust an OS that can't reliably be left alone for 24 hours without rebooting itself while you aren't looking
    - blodkorv 3y ago
      If windows is certified to run the US military its secure and stable.
      - dspillett 3y ago
        Debatable. In any case: How do I get the version+configuration used on US military installations on my machine?
      - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
        The stripped down very carefully configured Windows the military uses isn't the same Windows most people/businesses are using.
blodkorv 3y ago
In my view Windows has always been a great development system. Been doing both php and c# development on windows for years and it always been "start computer, install wamp/editor or visual studio" then you are set and can develop great software.
- capableweb 3y ago
  > it always been "start computer, install wamp/editor or visual studio" How is it any different on any other mainstream/moderately popular OS? macOS, Ubuntu and a couple of others basically have the same experience.
  - blodkorv 3y ago
    With php its very little difference except that you run Windows and get all the benefints from that regarding drivers and software support, i have yet found an equaly good database manager on linux as heidiSQL(it is unstable in wine) for ex. Also it "feels" easier to click on the wamp installer and just run it from there compared to sudo apt install xyz. With C# the difference is huge since you just need to install visual studio and you have everything you will need, with the best tooling there is.
    - modo_mario 3y ago
      >i have yet found an equaly good database manager on linux as heidiSQL(it is unstable in wine) for ex. How does it compare to the mysql one or MS sql server management studio for that matter? > Also it "feels" easier to click on the wamp installer and just run it from there compared to sudo apt install xyz. Wamp installer is windows specific but i'd assume you browse to find the download for it, etc or use winget or chocolately instead of sudo install xyz, etc so i fail to see the advantage there? Similarly I'd just open pacmac and click to install xampp or so no? Maybe an equivalent experience can be had using the windows store if WAMP is found on there but i think the windows store is a bit of a disaster still. (It can't seem to grasp that I do not speak French all that well for example) >With C# the difference is huge since you just need to install visual studio and you have everything you will need, with the best tooling there is. There's a reason people jokingly call it microsoft java. The second half might be mischaracterizing it on many fronts but the first half is true to form. I'd argue it as an argument in this matter is similar to bringing up the best platform for developing with Swift.
clhodapp 3y ago
Windows 10 may have been your last benefits-outweigh-drawbacks release, but I'd argue the the blatant user hostility really started in Windows 8 (and tainted 10 as well).
- WillAdams 3y ago
  For me the turning point was Fall Creators Update. I bought a Samsung Galaxy Book 12 bundled w/ a Staedtler Noris Digital Stylus, and it was perfect --- then Fall Creators Update crippled the stylus making it impossible to select text --- rolled back to 1703 twice, but finally broke down and bought a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360. Currently trying out a Wacom One paired w/ a Linux box and wishing someone would make a nicer screen w/ touch which used standard pens (don't want to go to a Cintiq since it would lose on the synergy/compatibility of _all_ my devices using the same pen technology).
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    Huh I owned a Surface Book at the time and I don't recall the stylus breaking after that update. Did you confirm that the issue affected all Samsung models with a stylus?
    - WillAdams 3y ago
      What does your stylus do in a web browser when you drag it? Used to be it selected text, now it scrolls (which can be easily be done via touch). These days to select text w/ a stylus you have to press-hold to get a selection. Do you use any legacy applications? They don't work anymore, unless one disables Windows Ink or enables the option to use stylus as a mouse.
jug 3y ago
Windows 10 isn’t much different in terms of data collection. For example, for each USB drive you connect, it sends the serial number, partitions etc to Microsoft, as well as when you connect and disconnect it. And they probably know what smart TV you have in your living room even if you haven’t used it from your PC. Windows 10 is terrible at privacy. It is known to broadcast to 400 IP addresses. It’s not the OS to use to avoid privacy issues in Windows 11.
realitythreek 3y ago
Edit: Wrong parent

p-e-w 3y ago

> Microsoft had a good licensing model that sort of worked. Microsoft is the second-most valuable company in the world, with revenue comparable to the GDP of a small country. Seems like it's still working quite well.

jeltz 3y ago
They also had a similar valuation with the old non-abusive model so that does not contradict the grandparent comment.
belter 3y ago
"With high quality software that everybody loves" - Said no one ever...
Teever 3y ago
The secret ingredient is crime. Microsoft is as big as if is today because it broke the law in the past and avoided severe punishment from the DoJ.
- silverpepsi 3y ago
  I'm reading this comment as opposition to the rule of law The law they broke is of the type where you can't be known if what you're doing is allowed or not in advance. Dictatorships love these sorts of laws, but unfortunately in the West companies are made to deal with a bunch of them
  - jasonjayr 3y ago
    With all the privileges granted to these companies in the west, shouldn't they also bear some responsibilities to continue to serve the public fairly as well?
blibble 3y ago
> Seems like it's still working quite well. one could say the same about exxonmobil, chevron and haliburton
- p-e-w 3y ago
  Really? I remember when Exxon was the world's most valuable company. It's not even in the top 10 anymore.
  - chrisandchris 3y ago
    Isn't that the point? Today does not tell about tomorrow. Maybe Microsoft isn't in the Top N anymore in a couple of years.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  Exactly; these are highly successful companies. Sure, they're destroying the planet and leading us to doom, but they're giving the people what they want. Just look at the discussion here today about how awful cars and parking are, and how many people trash public transit and walkable cities because they like their cars and driving everywhere. The problem isn't big corporations, the problem is regular, everyday people.
  - catboybotnet 3y ago
    they are not wrong, though. from my time in the US, unless you're lucky and decide to stay in a city with half-decent public transport, you NEED a car to get around. No busses, no trains, no trams, only ever-expanding highways and stroads. these companies spent a whole century destroying public transport to sell more cars. they spend that century spreading propaganda about cars, bribing politicians (or lobbying as you like to call it), and completely redoing the entire infrastructure of a major world power for... more money. you cannot blame the people being exploited for having to buy into a system they cannot do without, in a country where public transport is just a hollow imitation of itself from the past. again, they spent trillions to get things how they are now! government propaganda since the red scare hasn't been as effective as this.

LoganDark 3y ago

> Windows 10 also had WSL2 which made it an okay development system. To be honest, I would have preferred WSL1 which implemented the syscalls directly under Windows for the best possible integration, but they eventually just threw that away and switched to using virtual machines!

ht85 3y ago
To be honest, I would prefer to have my guts sprayed with honey and exposed to a large colony of ants.
rootw0rm 3y ago
agreed, WSL1 was an ambitious, cool project
- dspillett 3y ago
  Agreed, but I could never get past the thought “all the friendliness of Unix, all the security & stability¹ of Windows”! -- [1] never trust an OS that can't reliably be left alone for 24 hours without rebooting itself while you aren't looking
  - blodkorv 3y ago
    If windows is certified to run the US military its secure and stable.
    - dspillett 3y ago
      Debatable. In any case: How do I get the version+configuration used on US military installations on my machine?
    - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
      The stripped down very carefully configured Windows the military uses isn't the same Windows most people/businesses are using.

blodkorv 3y ago

In my view Windows has always been a great development system. Been doing both php and c# development on windows for years and it always been "start computer, install wamp/editor or visual studio" then you are set and can develop great software.

capableweb 3y ago
> it always been "start computer, install wamp/editor or visual studio" How is it any different on any other mainstream/moderately popular OS? macOS, Ubuntu and a couple of others basically have the same experience.
- blodkorv 3y ago
  With php its very little difference except that you run Windows and get all the benefints from that regarding drivers and software support, i have yet found an equaly good database manager on linux as heidiSQL(it is unstable in wine) for ex. Also it "feels" easier to click on the wamp installer and just run it from there compared to sudo apt install xyz. With C# the difference is huge since you just need to install visual studio and you have everything you will need, with the best tooling there is.
  - modo_mario 3y ago
    >i have yet found an equaly good database manager on linux as heidiSQL(it is unstable in wine) for ex. How does it compare to the mysql one or MS sql server management studio for that matter? > Also it "feels" easier to click on the wamp installer and just run it from there compared to sudo apt install xyz. Wamp installer is windows specific but i'd assume you browse to find the download for it, etc or use winget or chocolately instead of sudo install xyz, etc so i fail to see the advantage there? Similarly I'd just open pacmac and click to install xampp or so no? Maybe an equivalent experience can be had using the windows store if WAMP is found on there but i think the windows store is a bit of a disaster still. (It can't seem to grasp that I do not speak French all that well for example) >With C# the difference is huge since you just need to install visual studio and you have everything you will need, with the best tooling there is. There's a reason people jokingly call it microsoft java. The second half might be mischaracterizing it on many fronts but the first half is true to form. I'd argue it as an argument in this matter is similar to bringing up the best platform for developing with Swift.

clhodapp 3y ago

Windows 10 may have been your last benefits-outweigh-drawbacks release, but I'd argue the the blatant user hostility really started in Windows 8 (and tainted 10 as well).

WillAdams 3y ago
For me the turning point was Fall Creators Update. I bought a Samsung Galaxy Book 12 bundled w/ a Staedtler Noris Digital Stylus, and it was perfect --- then Fall Creators Update crippled the stylus making it impossible to select text --- rolled back to 1703 twice, but finally broke down and bought a Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360. Currently trying out a Wacom One paired w/ a Linux box and wishing someone would make a nicer screen w/ touch which used standard pens (don't want to go to a Cintiq since it would lose on the synergy/compatibility of _all_ my devices using the same pen technology).
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  Huh I owned a Surface Book at the time and I don't recall the stylus breaking after that update. Did you confirm that the issue affected all Samsung models with a stylus?
  - WillAdams 3y ago
    What does your stylus do in a web browser when you drag it? Used to be it selected text, now it scrolls (which can be easily be done via touch). These days to select text w/ a stylus you have to press-hold to get a selection. Do you use any legacy applications? They don't work anymore, unless one disables Windows Ink or enables the option to use stylus as a mouse.

jug 3y ago

Windows 10 isn’t much different in terms of data collection. For example, for each USB drive you connect, it sends the serial number, partitions etc to Microsoft, as well as when you connect and disconnect it. And they probably know what smart TV you have in your living room even if you haven’t used it from your PC. Windows 10 is terrible at privacy. It is known to broadcast to 400 IP addresses. It’s not the OS to use to avoid privacy issues in Windows 11.

realitythreek 3y ago

Edit: Wrong parent