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> I'd planned professionally at about 30 and then realized it wasn't what I wanted and had no idea what to do next. Oddly enough, I think this is what keeps me

> I'd planned professionally at about 30 and then realized it wasn't what I wanted and had no idea what to do next. Oddly enough, I think this is what keeps me from being ambitious in a professional sense. I just feel like, based on everything I read, hear, and see, that we are all just donkeys chasing the metaphorical carrot tied to a stick. I swear, it's like the hedonistic treadmill is turned up a few notches too high. There is just so much social pressure to jump into the rat race. I mean, part of me wants to be more ambitious -- to really see how far my abilities and efforts can take me. However, if I have learned one thing in life it is that everything has a cost. So, what if I do accomplish whatever career goals I set out to achieve? I think a lot of the ambition that comes and goes in my head originates not out of a desire to fulfill my own wants but to kind of self-medicate some deep rooted self-esteem issues/feelings of inadequacy. What do you all think?

xyzelement 3y ago
Thank you for being vulnerable (to the the extent that you were being) with this post. My two cents, I deeply agree that "everything has a cost" but I don't find that most unambitious people make a conscious trade off. Most unambitious people I know aren't doing anything with the time and energy they are "saving". They are just kinda passing/wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. That's different than someone making a conscious decision (eg not taking the most demanding job in order to have time w the family) The other thing unambitious people often miss is that working hardcore can be fun and energizing in its own right and it can develop you as a person holistically. I don't think many ambitious people work hard despite hating it every second. I think they rather enjoy it and benefit from it (similar to someone who likes exercise). At least that's been my experience and perception.
- chinchilla2020 3y ago
  > They are just kinda passing\wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. This notion that you should be grinding for some sort of passion or satisfaction isn't as real as people make it out to be. Some of the most depressed, broken people you meet are highly passionate professionals, celebrities, and artists who found deep satisfaction in their jobs. When it comes down to it, mental health things are more complicated than chasing you 'passion', whatever that means. In my experience the happiest and most stable people I know are financially secure. Not hard workers, not working on some magnum opus. Just plain well-off. One is a stay at home dad who hasn't worked a day since he married his wife at 24. Great guy. He isn't posting on hackernews about life hacks and bragging about the grind. He just golfs and raises his kids and winks when I make fun of him for it.
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    I think you and I agree (I am the person you're responding to) The guy you mentioned who's busy raising his kids is doing the most important and meaningful work he can possibly be doing. It doesn't have to be a grind to be meaningful. It just needs to be meaningful... This isn't the same as the archetype I referred to in my post - a guy who's not ambitious but also is not doing anything meaningful or enjoyable with his time and energy (which is very different from your friend)
kirse 3y ago
I once spoke to a counselor who emphasized the seasonal nature of life. Which reminds me of Ecclesiastes 3 (below). Find your seasonal purpose(s) and move in those directions until they are exhausted. Sometimes one's purpose is simply to rest and pray/meditate on the next purpose and phase. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes%203&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes%20... It's hard to discern motivations, but I always like to pray on if what I'm doing is by faith and is loving. Against those things there is no law. At the end of the day, the only thing gained or lost here is eternal, and I'm not going to the grave with any of the earthly accumulations or losses. So most of the "counting the cost" needs to be in the spiritual domain.
WXLCKNO 3y ago
I "made it" (financially set for life) in the past two years after selling my company at 33. I was chasing something like it since I was maybe 15, tired of having grown up poor and wanting better for my family and myself. I'm still not happy but at least I know I'd rather have money and be sad than also being worried about money on top of that. I definitely need to get back some semblance of meaning in my life, but at 34 now (without kids) and still feeling like I'm 25 because my perception of time is warped by attention deficit.. I feel like the only years I care about are soon to be over (under 40). The further I get from my childhood the less I want to be here.
- heyoni 3y ago
  I seriously think that we need to collectively stop worshipping individualism so hard. Go do something for others.
- speakfreely 3y ago
  The biggest problem I noticed in your post is the tense you're using to describe yourself. You're describing your story in the past tense. You now have the resources to write an even more successful/interesting/fulfilling chapter in whatever line of business is most interesting to you and potentially have another step function in wealth. Each step function in wealth gives you more potential for impact in a measurable way in other peoples' lives. I hope you decide that you're just getting started.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- chasd00 3y ago
  I can’t remember who said it, “money can’t buy happiness but it’s way more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes”.
bmitc 3y ago
> I just feel like, based on everything I read, hear, and see, that we are all just donkeys chasing the metaphorical carrot tied to a stick. Something that is less analogical and more biographical: we are primates chasing and arguing over the shiniest and new type of banana. The analogical part left is what the "banana" might be. As primates, we are unbelievably ill-equipped to handle the Internet. This dream of the Internet connecting us together turned into the nightmare it is because it taps into our primitive emotions, which ends up being most of them.
- mattgreenrocks 3y ago
  I find no solace in evolutinary psych “explanations” during dark nights of the soul. It feels like nihilism dressed up in Science, with an undertone of “well this is the best we got so tough luck!” to be frank. If they work for you, great.
  - bmitc 3y ago
    What is they? What is working for me? I just gave an observation. If one wanted to do something with that observation, then I think it's fair to say that we should design our technology with the limitations of our emotional intelligence in mind. We cannot keep assuming that our emotional intelligence is infinite and can absorb everything we throw at it. Our emotional capacity is limited, and so we should acknowledge that and design our systems with that in mind. But, we don't. By the way, nihilism is a valid approach as a philosophy and has several important things to say. It is not what it is commonly understood to be.
mattgreenrocks 3y ago
The way to deal with this is to avoid the rat race and all the crap that comes with it: lifestyle bloat, houses that own you, fancy cars, etc. it’s a rigged game. Your job should serve your purposes. Once it stops doing that, something has to change or you’re going to be unhappy. The curse of midlife is being able to see the need and justification for bullshit like the rat race, knowing full well you perpetuate it in your own small way by participating, while also becoming cognizant that there’s more to life than empty status signaling. You see the extent to which people self-medicate to keep themselves in the race, and the sheer number of people who simply disengage in some way because they can’t deal with it. The only way forward is through.

xyzelement 3y ago

Thank you for being vulnerable (to the the extent that you were being) with this post. My two cents, I deeply agree that "everything has a cost" but I don't find that most unambitious people make a conscious trade off. Most unambitious people I know aren't doing anything with the time and energy they are "saving". They are just kinda passing/wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. That's different than someone making a conscious decision (eg not taking the most demanding job in order to have time w the family) The other thing unambitious people often miss is that working hardcore can be fun and energizing in its own right and it can develop you as a person holistically. I don't think many ambitious people work hard despite hating it every second. I think they rather enjoy it and benefit from it (similar to someone who likes exercise). At least that's been my experience and perception.

chinchilla2020 3y ago
> They are just kinda passing\wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. This notion that you should be grinding for some sort of passion or satisfaction isn't as real as people make it out to be. Some of the most depressed, broken people you meet are highly passionate professionals, celebrities, and artists who found deep satisfaction in their jobs. When it comes down to it, mental health things are more complicated than chasing you 'passion', whatever that means. In my experience the happiest and most stable people I know are financially secure. Not hard workers, not working on some magnum opus. Just plain well-off. One is a stay at home dad who hasn't worked a day since he married his wife at 24. Great guy. He isn't posting on hackernews about life hacks and bragging about the grind. He just golfs and raises his kids and winks when I make fun of him for it.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  I think you and I agree (I am the person you're responding to) The guy you mentioned who's busy raising his kids is doing the most important and meaningful work he can possibly be doing. It doesn't have to be a grind to be meaningful. It just needs to be meaningful... This isn't the same as the archetype I referred to in my post - a guy who's not ambitious but also is not doing anything meaningful or enjoyable with his time and energy (which is very different from your friend)

kirse 3y ago

I once spoke to a counselor who emphasized the seasonal nature of life. Which reminds me of Ecclesiastes 3 (below). Find your seasonal purpose(s) and move in those directions until they are exhausted. Sometimes one's purpose is simply to rest and pray/meditate on the next purpose and phase. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes%203&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes%20... It's hard to discern motivations, but I always like to pray on if what I'm doing is by faith and is loving. Against those things there is no law. At the end of the day, the only thing gained or lost here is eternal, and I'm not going to the grave with any of the earthly accumulations or losses. So most of the "counting the cost" needs to be in the spiritual domain.

WXLCKNO 3y ago

I "made it" (financially set for life) in the past two years after selling my company at 33. I was chasing something like it since I was maybe 15, tired of having grown up poor and wanting better for my family and myself. I'm still not happy but at least I know I'd rather have money and be sad than also being worried about money on top of that. I definitely need to get back some semblance of meaning in my life, but at 34 now (without kids) and still feeling like I'm 25 because my perception of time is warped by attention deficit.. I feel like the only years I care about are soon to be over (under 40). The further I get from my childhood the less I want to be here.

heyoni 3y ago
I seriously think that we need to collectively stop worshipping individualism so hard. Go do something for others.
speakfreely 3y ago
The biggest problem I noticed in your post is the tense you're using to describe yourself. You're describing your story in the past tense. You now have the resources to write an even more successful/interesting/fulfilling chapter in whatever line of business is most interesting to you and potentially have another step function in wealth. Each step function in wealth gives you more potential for impact in a measurable way in other peoples' lives. I hope you decide that you're just getting started.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
chasd00 3y ago
I can’t remember who said it, “money can’t buy happiness but it’s way more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes”.

bmitc 3y ago

> I just feel like, based on everything I read, hear, and see, that we are all just donkeys chasing the metaphorical carrot tied to a stick. Something that is less analogical and more biographical: we are primates chasing and arguing over the shiniest and new type of banana. The analogical part left is what the "banana" might be. As primates, we are unbelievably ill-equipped to handle the Internet. This dream of the Internet connecting us together turned into the nightmare it is because it taps into our primitive emotions, which ends up being most of them.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago
I find no solace in evolutinary psych “explanations” during dark nights of the soul. It feels like nihilism dressed up in Science, with an undertone of “well this is the best we got so tough luck!” to be frank. If they work for you, great.
- bmitc 3y ago
  What is they? What is working for me? I just gave an observation. If one wanted to do something with that observation, then I think it's fair to say that we should design our technology with the limitations of our emotional intelligence in mind. We cannot keep assuming that our emotional intelligence is infinite and can absorb everything we throw at it. Our emotional capacity is limited, and so we should acknowledge that and design our systems with that in mind. But, we don't. By the way, nihilism is a valid approach as a philosophy and has several important things to say. It is not what it is commonly understood to be.

mattgreenrocks 3y ago

The way to deal with this is to avoid the rat race and all the crap that comes with it: lifestyle bloat, houses that own you, fancy cars, etc. it’s a rigged game. Your job should serve your purposes. Once it stops doing that, something has to change or you’re going to be unhappy. The curse of midlife is being able to see the need and justification for bullshit like the rat race, knowing full well you perpetuate it in your own small way by participating, while also becoming cognizant that there’s more to life than empty status signaling. You see the extent to which people self-medicate to keep themselves in the race, and the sheer number of people who simply disengage in some way because they can’t deal with it. The only way forward is through.