6 ms·

I thought the circumstances you describe are what leads to the typical midlife crisis. Not always, but people wake up and realize they're trapped in a life (kid

I thought the circumstances you describe are what leads to the typical midlife crisis. Not always, but people wake up and realize they're trapped in a life (kids, obligations, job) that sort of crept up on them, and feel like they need to let off some steam. A lot of (perhaps including the article's authors) modern "mid-life crises" are more what I've heard of as "quarter life crises" - you finish school, get a job, you're in a rut where you don't have an obvious next step and you're starting at possible decades of the same, you get depressed. But now a lot of people are like 35 at that time so it almost overlaps with the 80's version of a midlife crisis. This happened to me, I accomplished roughly what I'd planned professionally at about 30 and then realized it wasn't what I wanted and had no idea what to do next.

PaulHoule 3y ago
There is this book https://www.amazon.com/Passages-Predictable-Crises-Adult-Life/dp/0553271067 https://www.amazon.com/Passages-Predictable-Crises-Adult-Lif... which factually points out that most people go through several crises in their adult life. As a rule of thumb you have one every seven years or so. I had one around 30, another in my early 40s, and another at 49. If you read between the lines in Freud you could also get the picture that a psychoanalysis would be likely to span the duration of such a crisis (say 18 months) and improve the outcome you get. The author, Gail Sheehy, gave a talk at Ithaca College about a decade ago and actually said that she disowned that book for a few reasons: (1) Passages is positive for divorce as a way that people who are evolving at different rates and in different directions to realize themselves. She realized later on that divorce is overall highly destructive. (2) The paths that people take aren't quite so predictable. (3) Passages was based on a study of graduates of an elite school, one thing that stands out is that none of the case studies consider serious deprivation, in fact you never once hear that somebody wanted to do X or Y but didn't because they couldn't afford it. In the sense that the experience of most people is "dark matter" you might want to read https://www.amazon.com/Silences-Tillie-Olsen/dp/1558614400 https://www.amazon.com/Silences-Tillie-Olsen/dp/1558614400 In particular divorce might work out well for somebody like Bill Gates or Elon Musk who can trade in their tired old nag for a hot young thing but for most ordinary people and their families it's profoundly harmful. Sheehy went on to write numerous more books on the same subject.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
  Is there an alternative to Passages that has stood the test of time better?
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    This book is based on the same study https://www.freepsychotherapybooks.org/ebook/wisdom-of-the-ego/ https://www.freepsychotherapybooks.org/ebook/wisdom-of-the-e... it doesn't deal with the "voicelesness" of the "working class" (closer to the British idea of "working class" than the Marxist one, notably "working class" people in Britain frequently aren't working) but that voicelessness is a defining characteristic of that group. Anyone who finds a voice has left that class and can't really speak for it.
- flangola7 3y ago
  Divorce is often extremely healthy. It's not reasonable to characterize it as either.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - kortilla 3y ago
    In the way that an amputation is. Better make sure that limb was definitely gangrenous because a part of you will be gone forever.
    - flangola7 3y ago
      That's really not the best analogy. More like a cancer: a part of you that shouldn't even be there to begin with.
      - kortilla 3y ago
        Maybe for an annulment, but that’s very rarely the case for divorces entered into consensually.
hirvi74 3y ago
> I'd planned professionally at about 30 and then realized it wasn't what I wanted and had no idea what to do next. Oddly enough, I think this is what keeps me from being ambitious in a professional sense. I just feel like, based on everything I read, hear, and see, that we are all just donkeys chasing the metaphorical carrot tied to a stick. I swear, it's like the hedonistic treadmill is turned up a few notches too high. There is just so much social pressure to jump into the rat race. I mean, part of me wants to be more ambitious -- to really see how far my abilities and efforts can take me. However, if I have learned one thing in life it is that everything has a cost. So, what if I do accomplish whatever career goals I set out to achieve? I think a lot of the ambition that comes and goes in my head originates not out of a desire to fulfill my own wants but to kind of self-medicate some deep rooted self-esteem issues/feelings of inadequacy. What do you all think?
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Thank you for being vulnerable (to the the extent that you were being) with this post. My two cents, I deeply agree that "everything has a cost" but I don't find that most unambitious people make a conscious trade off. Most unambitious people I know aren't doing anything with the time and energy they are "saving". They are just kinda passing/wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. That's different than someone making a conscious decision (eg not taking the most demanding job in order to have time w the family) The other thing unambitious people often miss is that working hardcore can be fun and energizing in its own right and it can develop you as a person holistically. I don't think many ambitious people work hard despite hating it every second. I think they rather enjoy it and benefit from it (similar to someone who likes exercise). At least that's been my experience and perception.
  - chinchilla2020 3y ago
    > They are just kinda passing\wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. This notion that you should be grinding for some sort of passion or satisfaction isn't as real as people make it out to be. Some of the most depressed, broken people you meet are highly passionate professionals, celebrities, and artists who found deep satisfaction in their jobs. When it comes down to it, mental health things are more complicated than chasing you 'passion', whatever that means. In my experience the happiest and most stable people I know are financially secure. Not hard workers, not working on some magnum opus. Just plain well-off. One is a stay at home dad who hasn't worked a day since he married his wife at 24. Great guy. He isn't posting on hackernews about life hacks and bragging about the grind. He just golfs and raises his kids and winks when I make fun of him for it.

PaulHoule 3y ago

There is this book https://www.amazon.com/Passages-Predictable-Crises-Adult-Life/dp/0553271067 https://www.amazon.com/Passages-Predictable-Crises-Adult-Lif... which factually points out that most people go through several crises in their adult life. As a rule of thumb you have one every seven years or so. I had one around 30, another in my early 40s, and another at 49. If you read between the lines in Freud you could also get the picture that a psychoanalysis would be likely to span the duration of such a crisis (say 18 months) and improve the outcome you get. The author, Gail Sheehy, gave a talk at Ithaca College about a decade ago and actually said that she disowned that book for a few reasons: (1) Passages is positive for divorce as a way that people who are evolving at different rates and in different directions to realize themselves. She realized later on that divorce is overall highly destructive. (2) The paths that people take aren't quite so predictable. (3) Passages was based on a study of graduates of an elite school, one thing that stands out is that none of the case studies consider serious deprivation, in fact you never once hear that somebody wanted to do X or Y but didn't because they couldn't afford it. In the sense that the experience of most people is "dark matter" you might want to read https://www.amazon.com/Silences-Tillie-Olsen/dp/1558614400 https://www.amazon.com/Silences-Tillie-Olsen/dp/1558614400 In particular divorce might work out well for somebody like Bill Gates or Elon Musk who can trade in their tired old nag for a hot young thing but for most ordinary people and their families it's profoundly harmful. Sheehy went on to write numerous more books on the same subject.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y ago
Is there an alternative to Passages that has stood the test of time better?
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  This book is based on the same study https://www.freepsychotherapybooks.org/ebook/wisdom-of-the-ego/ https://www.freepsychotherapybooks.org/ebook/wisdom-of-the-e... it doesn't deal with the "voicelesness" of the "working class" (closer to the British idea of "working class" than the Marxist one, notably "working class" people in Britain frequently aren't working) but that voicelessness is a defining characteristic of that group. Anyone who finds a voice has left that class and can't really speak for it.
flangola7 3y ago
Divorce is often extremely healthy. It's not reasonable to characterize it as either.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- kortilla 3y ago
  In the way that an amputation is. Better make sure that limb was definitely gangrenous because a part of you will be gone forever.
  - flangola7 3y ago
    That's really not the best analogy. More like a cancer: a part of you that shouldn't even be there to begin with.
    - kortilla 3y ago
      Maybe for an annulment, but that’s very rarely the case for divorces entered into consensually.

hirvi74 3y ago

> I'd planned professionally at about 30 and then realized it wasn't what I wanted and had no idea what to do next. Oddly enough, I think this is what keeps me from being ambitious in a professional sense. I just feel like, based on everything I read, hear, and see, that we are all just donkeys chasing the metaphorical carrot tied to a stick. I swear, it's like the hedonistic treadmill is turned up a few notches too high. There is just so much social pressure to jump into the rat race. I mean, part of me wants to be more ambitious -- to really see how far my abilities and efforts can take me. However, if I have learned one thing in life it is that everything has a cost. So, what if I do accomplish whatever career goals I set out to achieve? I think a lot of the ambition that comes and goes in my head originates not out of a desire to fulfill my own wants but to kind of self-medicate some deep rooted self-esteem issues/feelings of inadequacy. What do you all think?

xyzelement 3y ago
Thank you for being vulnerable (to the the extent that you were being) with this post. My two cents, I deeply agree that "everything has a cost" but I don't find that most unambitious people make a conscious trade off. Most unambitious people I know aren't doing anything with the time and energy they are "saving". They are just kinda passing/wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. That's different than someone making a conscious decision (eg not taking the most demanding job in order to have time w the family) The other thing unambitious people often miss is that working hardcore can be fun and energizing in its own right and it can develop you as a person holistically. I don't think many ambitious people work hard despite hating it every second. I think they rather enjoy it and benefit from it (similar to someone who likes exercise). At least that's been my experience and perception.
- chinchilla2020 3y ago
  > They are just kinda passing\wasting it on things that don't satisfy them deeply. This notion that you should be grinding for some sort of passion or satisfaction isn't as real as people make it out to be. Some of the most depressed, broken people you meet are highly passionate professionals, celebrities, and artists who found deep satisfaction in their jobs. When it comes down to it, mental health things are more complicated than chasing you 'passion', whatever that means. In my experience the happiest and most stable people I know are financially secure. Not hard workers, not working on some magnum opus. Just plain well-off. One is a stay at home dad who hasn't worked a day since he married his wife at 24. Great guy. He isn't posting on hackernews about life hacks and bragging about the grind. He just golfs and raises his kids and winks when I make fun of him for it.