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Actually, I do believe this. I am not going to make the age old argument "real programmers program by toggling there OS into the front panel of the computer". H

by timtadh 15y ago

Actually, I do believe this. I am not going to make the age old argument "real programmers program by toggling there OS into the front panel of the computer". However, I am going to argue good programmers can program in such an environment. A good programmer can put together a system with nothing but a stack of note cards, a pencil and a good eraser. Since good programmers can work in really archaic and restrictive environments should they? Of course not! You should give them the best tools for the job, they will work quicker. However, that doesn't mean they can't be amazingly productive with primitive tools (see the 1970s for instance).

ajross 15y ago
Absolutely. To extend that answer: a programmer who can't work without an IDE probably: - Can't work without an integrated debugger (i.e. can't diagnose a core, doesn't know how to attach a gdb to a running process, etc...) - Can't diagnose problems outside of the development sandbox. - Will demand access to expensive debugging tools instead of throwing some logging in. - Doesn't code experimentally. Won't try things. Will ship the first version that works. - Can't generate a simple test case for a bug, instead hammering away on a giant 200-file project someone else wrote. - Often can't write a single-file, simple program from scratch AT ALL. The analogy to a crutch is very apt. Yes, you can do great work with IDEs, and I'm sure people do. But 90% of the time an IDE user is using it only because it's all they know, and they're too lazy or unskilled to learn something different.
WildUtah 15y ago
>>A good programmer can put together a system with nothing but a stack of note cards, a pencil and a good eraser.<< A real programmer uses a pen.
- jebblue 15y ago
  Perhaps real programmers communicate telepathically, why should you need a pen as a crutch? Perhaps the other two gentlemen who think an IDE is a crutch will know the answer.

by timtadh 15y ago

ajross 15y ago

Absolutely. To extend that answer: a programmer who can't work without an IDE probably: - Can't work without an integrated debugger (i.e. can't diagnose a core, doesn't know how to attach a gdb to a running process, etc...) - Can't diagnose problems outside of the development sandbox. - Will demand access to expensive debugging tools instead of throwing some logging in. - Doesn't code experimentally. Won't try things. Will ship the first version that works. - Can't generate a simple test case for a bug, instead hammering away on a giant 200-file project someone else wrote. - Often can't write a single-file, simple program from scratch AT ALL. The analogy to a crutch is very apt. Yes, you can do great work with IDEs, and I'm sure people do. But 90% of the time an IDE user is using it only because it's all they know, and they're too lazy or unskilled to learn something different.

WildUtah 15y ago

>>A good programmer can put together a system with nothing but a stack of note cards, a pencil and a good eraser.<< A real programmer uses a pen.

jebblue 15y ago
Perhaps real programmers communicate telepathically, why should you need a pen as a crutch? Perhaps the other two gentlemen who think an IDE is a crutch will know the answer.