2 ms·

There's some background at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586 - a wikimedia.org subdomain was out of the questi

There's some background at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586 - a wikimedia.org subdomain was out of the question due to security concerns (it'd involve giving a third party a SSL certificate for wikimedia.org) [1], and wikimediafoundation.org was ruled out because it could cause confusion about volunteers' relationship to the Foundation [2] [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8932905 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8932905 [2]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8936483 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8936483

j1elo 3y ago
From your first link, it seems the decision to use a different new domain stems from difficulties getting the server's HSTS policy right, and it even seems they had a similar issue in the past with having the store as a subdomain [1]. If that's true, for a use case as functionally basic as having a store and a social instance in their respective subdomains, it looks to me like a complete failure of HSTS, a case of technology causing problems that shouldn't exist to begin with. [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8920625 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8920625
- marksomnian 3y ago
  It's not linked there (or on any Wikitech pages I can find), but I can imagine there's a secondary concern of *.wikimedia.org cookies getting sent to third parties - e.g. Stack Overflow has separate second-level domains (stackoverflow.email/stackoverflow.blog) for their 3rd-party-hosted email service and blog for exactly this reason (cf. https://nickcraver.com/blog/2017/05/22/https-on-stack-overflow/#certificates-child-metas-metastackexchangecom https://nickcraver.com/blog/2017/05/22/https-on-stack-overfl...)
account42 3y ago
Seems the real issue is that Mastodon is too hard to self host if not even Wikimedia wants to do it. > it'd involve giving a third party a SSL certificate for wikimedia.org You can have certificates for subdomains. With Let's Encrypt you still need to control the root domain to generate them so they'd have to setup something for that. But that's more a can't-be-bothered concern than an actual security concern. Teaching the public to trust random domains being authentic is a much much bigger security concern anyway.

j1elo 3y ago

From your first link, it seems the decision to use a different new domain stems from difficulties getting the server's HSTS policy right, and it even seems they had a similar issue in the past with having the store as a subdomain [1]. If that's true, for a use case as functionally basic as having a store and a social instance in their respective subdomains, it looks to me like a complete failure of HSTS, a case of technology causing problems that shouldn't exist to begin with. [1]: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8920625 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T337586#8920625

marksomnian 3y ago
It's not linked there (or on any Wikitech pages I can find), but I can imagine there's a secondary concern of *.wikimedia.org cookies getting sent to third parties - e.g. Stack Overflow has separate second-level domains (stackoverflow.email/stackoverflow.blog) for their 3rd-party-hosted email service and blog for exactly this reason (cf. https://nickcraver.com/blog/2017/05/22/https-on-stack-overflow/#certificates-child-metas-metastackexchangecom https://nickcraver.com/blog/2017/05/22/https-on-stack-overfl...)

account42 3y ago

Seems the real issue is that Mastodon is too hard to self host if not even Wikimedia wants to do it. > it'd involve giving a third party a SSL certificate for wikimedia.org You can have certificates for subdomains. With Let's Encrypt you still need to control the root domain to generate them so they'd have to setup something for that. But that's more a can't-be-bothered concern than an actual security concern. Teaching the public to trust random domains being authentic is a much much bigger security concern anyway.