4 ms·

What an overcomplicated load of baloney. If you become aware that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, do some 4-4-4-4 box method breathing unt

by rcarr 3y ago

What an overcomplicated load of baloney. If you become aware that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, do some 4-4-4-4 box method breathing until your mind calms down. The end. Just saved you having to remember this stupid acronym and this “ransom decision” nonsense. What’s more, it’s a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios, as opposed to whoever this person is who’s claiming to have “10,000 learning cycles” of self discipline, whatever the fuck that means.

username135 3y ago
10000 of anything is just key wording to allude to being a 'master' at something since that number was arbitrarily used to determine who or who is not an expert.
- rcarr 3y ago
  It was referring to hours of practice so 10,000 hours made you a master but what the fuck constitutes 10,000 learning cycles of self discipline? Has he spent 10,000 hours sat in meditation like a monk? I highly doubt it. It’s nonsense the author is using to try and give himself some credibility. He also links to a blog post describing his “somewhat hardcore work routine” and how adhd is his “superpower”. It’s a hard pass from me.
  - username135 3y ago
    Ya, I was referring to the book Outliers. When ever I here someone mention 10k of anything related to mastery or skill I assume they're parroting that book
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Never heard of it, but according to random website [0]. > Box breathing—also known as square breathing and 4-4-4-4 breathing—is a breathwork first popularized by Navy SEALs who used it to quickly sharpen concentration and enhance alertness. It requires inhaling for four counts, holding your breath for four counts, exhaling for four counts, and then holding your breath again for four counts. [0] https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/box-breathing https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/box-breathing
- anyoneamous 3y ago
  It's quite relaxing, but I get the impression that's because your mind is filled with "Count to 4"/"Blarg my nose is stuffy"/"Jesus why is holding my breath for 4 seconds so hard"/"Wow I actually have to push to empty my lungs in 4 seconds"/etc
  - euazOn 3y ago
    Haha, you have forever ruined box breathing for me, from now on I will only think about those things :)
- rcarr 3y ago
  For anyone interested, I first came across it in Unbeatable Mind by Mark Divine. If I remember right it also goes into the OODA loop and other mental models, tips and tricks plus some info on physical fitness and flexibility. Good book.
catsarebetter 3y ago
Yeah it does seem a little bit more complex than necessary. Simple methods, simple life
ChanningAllen 3y ago
Author here. I am a fan of box breathing, along with several other "proven" breathing techniques. Not sure what the downside is of experimenting with new techniques to add to one's tool set? Keep in mind that I'm just a guy on the internet who discovered something that worked and decided to share it with others in the hope that they'd also find it helpful.
- rcarr 3y ago
  The only downside is wasted time, and possibly wasted money if people get hooked into the productivity rabbit hole and end up spending ridiculous amounts of money on apps, books, gadgets and whatever else trying to be more productive. I say this as someone who was probably like you once. I took a Big 5 personality test in my mid twenties that said that I had a low conscientiousness score which meant that I was pretty much destined to be a low earner as a high conscientiousness score is the trait most linked to high earners and achievement. What followed was probably a period of about seven years where I also tried all the meditation techniques whilst relentlessly trying to optimise my productivity, work and life, resulting in an inevitable burn out. Following that, I like many others on here, have ended up just using a few text files for organisation and I am probably more organised than I have ever been. I use one file with day headings with tasks underneath that I plan to do on each day. And then I have other files for projects that just contain lists of tasks relating to that project. When I'm ready to work on one of those tasks I move them into the main file. It's that simple. I am happier and more focussed than I was using any of these other systems. I make my text files in Obsidian, other people use org mode, some people use Google/Apple notes and others use Vim and plain text files. Even though it lead me to where I am now, I still look back and cringe at all the wasted time and energy I spent investigating and using all these other systems. I've done comments on reddit and elsewhere outlining my own overly convoluted systems that I might go back and delete in case someone stumbles on them and they lead people down the wrong path. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, really is the best strategy. And I suspect that also applies to regaining control with breathing which is why 4-4-4-4 works so well. I remember the enthusiasm and confidence I felt when I thought I'd found some great method and how much I wanted to share it so don't let me stop you if that's what you want to do. But I'd wager in five years you'll have forgotten all about this, you'll be using something far simpler, and you will probably also cringe if you do remember it or come across an article like this from someone else.
barbs 3y ago
This is about exercising self-discipline, not calming yourself down?
- rcarr 3y ago
  > that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, I believe that would come under overactive and distracted considering the author states "Maybe you're doomscrolling a social feed instead of working on that important project."
dang 3y ago
Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the site guidelines when posting here? You broke quite a few of them here. "Please don't fulminate." "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. 'That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3' can be shortened to '1 + 1 is 2, not 3." It's fine to disagree but please do so thoughtfully and without the vitriol or putdowns.
- rcarr 3y ago
  Can I have edit permissions restored so I can rewrite it to be less inflammatory? I was harsh because I've wasted a lot of my time on this stuff which I'd rather help others avoid - I went into this in a reply to the author in the comment thread for context. For what it's worth I would reword it as: If you become aware that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, do some 4-4-4-4 box method breathing until your mind calms down. I believe this a better method than the one suggested in this article - it is a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios. This post strikes me as a convoluted system that is going to be difficult to remember in the heat of the moment and therefore difficult to implement successfully. I am also sceptical about the effectiveness of the “ransom decision”. “10,000 learning cycles” of self discipline is also vague and doesn’t really map to the original 10,000 hours concept. I personally believe you’re far better off sticking to simple solutions for productivity and self discipline.
  - dang 3y ago
    Sure! I've reopened the edit window so you can change it how you want. (and I hear you about the conversation downthread - I didn't see that earlier)
    - rcarr 3y ago
      On second thought can we leave it up, as then anyone who sees the thread has a good example of an inflammatory comment and how to rewrite it to be more in keeping with the spirit of the site? If not then I will go back and change it.
imron 3y ago
> it’s a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios, What if it’s not life and death and you just want to resist the temptation to take a cookie from the cookie jar. 4-4-4-4 seems a bit overkill for that.
- rcarr 3y ago
  What, more so than holding yourself hostage by holding your breath? The aim of 4-4-4-4 is to get into the habit of calming the mind down so that the desire passes with the subsequent realisation that all desires pass. This seems like it's relying on willpower which is only going to take you so far.

by rcarr 3y ago

username135 3y ago

10000 of anything is just key wording to allude to being a 'master' at something since that number was arbitrarily used to determine who or who is not an expert.

rcarr 3y ago
It was referring to hours of practice so 10,000 hours made you a master but what the fuck constitutes 10,000 learning cycles of self discipline? Has he spent 10,000 hours sat in meditation like a monk? I highly doubt it. It’s nonsense the author is using to try and give himself some credibility. He also links to a blog post describing his “somewhat hardcore work routine” and how adhd is his “superpower”. It’s a hard pass from me.
- username135 3y ago
  Ya, I was referring to the book Outliers. When ever I here someone mention 10k of anything related to mastery or skill I assume they're parroting that book

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

Never heard of it, but according to random website [0]. > Box breathing—also known as square breathing and 4-4-4-4 breathing—is a breathwork first popularized by Navy SEALs who used it to quickly sharpen concentration and enhance alertness. It requires inhaling for four counts, holding your breath for four counts, exhaling for four counts, and then holding your breath again for four counts. [0] https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/box-breathing https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/box-breathing

anyoneamous 3y ago
It's quite relaxing, but I get the impression that's because your mind is filled with "Count to 4"/"Blarg my nose is stuffy"/"Jesus why is holding my breath for 4 seconds so hard"/"Wow I actually have to push to empty my lungs in 4 seconds"/etc
- euazOn 3y ago
  Haha, you have forever ruined box breathing for me, from now on I will only think about those things :)
rcarr 3y ago
For anyone interested, I first came across it in Unbeatable Mind by Mark Divine. If I remember right it also goes into the OODA loop and other mental models, tips and tricks plus some info on physical fitness and flexibility. Good book.

catsarebetter 3y ago

Yeah it does seem a little bit more complex than necessary. Simple methods, simple life

ChanningAllen 3y ago

Author here. I am a fan of box breathing, along with several other "proven" breathing techniques. Not sure what the downside is of experimenting with new techniques to add to one's tool set? Keep in mind that I'm just a guy on the internet who discovered something that worked and decided to share it with others in the hope that they'd also find it helpful.

rcarr 3y ago
The only downside is wasted time, and possibly wasted money if people get hooked into the productivity rabbit hole and end up spending ridiculous amounts of money on apps, books, gadgets and whatever else trying to be more productive. I say this as someone who was probably like you once. I took a Big 5 personality test in my mid twenties that said that I had a low conscientiousness score which meant that I was pretty much destined to be a low earner as a high conscientiousness score is the trait most linked to high earners and achievement. What followed was probably a period of about seven years where I also tried all the meditation techniques whilst relentlessly trying to optimise my productivity, work and life, resulting in an inevitable burn out. Following that, I like many others on here, have ended up just using a few text files for organisation and I am probably more organised than I have ever been. I use one file with day headings with tasks underneath that I plan to do on each day. And then I have other files for projects that just contain lists of tasks relating to that project. When I'm ready to work on one of those tasks I move them into the main file. It's that simple. I am happier and more focussed than I was using any of these other systems. I make my text files in Obsidian, other people use org mode, some people use Google/Apple notes and others use Vim and plain text files. Even though it lead me to where I am now, I still look back and cringe at all the wasted time and energy I spent investigating and using all these other systems. I've done comments on reddit and elsewhere outlining my own overly convoluted systems that I might go back and delete in case someone stumbles on them and they lead people down the wrong path. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, really is the best strategy. And I suspect that also applies to regaining control with breathing which is why 4-4-4-4 works so well. I remember the enthusiasm and confidence I felt when I thought I'd found some great method and how much I wanted to share it so don't let me stop you if that's what you want to do. But I'd wager in five years you'll have forgotten all about this, you'll be using something far simpler, and you will probably also cringe if you do remember it or come across an article like this from someone else.

barbs 3y ago

This is about exercising self-discipline, not calming yourself down?

rcarr 3y ago
> that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, I believe that would come under overactive and distracted considering the author states "Maybe you're doomscrolling a social feed instead of working on that important project."

dang 3y ago

Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the site guidelines when posting here? You broke quite a few of them here. "Please don't fulminate." "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something." "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. 'That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3' can be shortened to '1 + 1 is 2, not 3." It's fine to disagree but please do so thoughtfully and without the vitriol or putdowns.

rcarr 3y ago
Can I have edit permissions restored so I can rewrite it to be less inflammatory? I was harsh because I've wasted a lot of my time on this stuff which I'd rather help others avoid - I went into this in a reply to the author in the comment thread for context. For what it's worth I would reword it as: If you become aware that you’re scared, stressed or overactive and distracted, do some 4-4-4-4 box method breathing until your mind calms down. I believe this a better method than the one suggested in this article - it is a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios. This post strikes me as a convoluted system that is going to be difficult to remember in the heat of the moment and therefore difficult to implement successfully. I am also sceptical about the effectiveness of the “ransom decision”. “10,000 learning cycles” of self discipline is also vague and doesn’t really map to the original 10,000 hours concept. I personally believe you’re far better off sticking to simple solutions for productivity and self discipline.
- dang 3y ago
  Sure! I've reopened the edit window so you can change it how you want. (and I hear you about the conversation downthread - I didn't see that earlier)
  - rcarr 3y ago
    On second thought can we leave it up, as then anyone who sees the thread has a good example of an inflammatory comment and how to rewrite it to be more in keeping with the spirit of the site? If not then I will go back and change it.

imron 3y ago

> it’s a proven technique that’s used by military personnel in life or death scenarios, What if it’s not life and death and you just want to resist the temptation to take a cookie from the cookie jar. 4-4-4-4 seems a bit overkill for that.

rcarr 3y ago
What, more so than holding yourself hostage by holding your breath? The aim of 4-4-4-4 is to get into the habit of calming the mind down so that the desire passes with the subsequent realisation that all desires pass. This seems like it's relying on willpower which is only going to take you so far.