3 ms·

My impression is that most Slack instances are highly private and most users are explicitly invited. This is in contrast to Reddit and to some degree Discord wh

by Yhippa 3y ago

My impression is that most Slack instances are highly private and most users are explicitly invited. This is in contrast to Reddit and to some degree Discord where the barrier to joining subreddits or servers is generally low. If this is true what is Mozilla's business making niche feature requests to other companies products that they don't own? Is the plan to do this kind of advocacy for other products?

mjr00 3y ago
Yeah, to me this is a bit odd. Many industries require that internal communication be logged, so E2E encryption and blocking are a no-go, and even having that option in the software can add potential regulatory headaches. I think it's fair to call out that Slack isn't a platform for interacting with strangers, nor the right tool for discussing a topic that would get you in trouble if e.g. your government saw your messages. But it's okay to just say, don't use Slack for that kind of thing; there's already other E2E encrypted messaging apps, and there's better platforms for managing communities of strangers where you have bad actors (who you can't deal with by contacting an HR department).
- andybak 3y ago
  Maybe people are using Slack in ways you don't expect? That's fine, surely. Isn't a better solution to have per instance administrative controls? Default to allowing blocking but allow companies to disable that feature. Make it clear to users in the UI when this has been done so they can complain if it's not appropriate to disable it.
catgary 3y ago
I find it weird anyone would have a problem with this, since the alternative is these advocacy groups actively pushing people to stop using these services.
- jeltz 3y ago
  > since the alternative is these advocacy groups actively pushing people to stop using these services. Which would be a great thing. Communities should not use Slack.
Twirrim 3y ago
> My impression is that most Slack instances are highly private and most users are explicitly invited. Not exactly true in companies, where you're subject to the whims of HR department eventually, maybe, probably not deciding to fire someone abusive. In the mean time you're subject to abuse over and over again. Great you get lots of evidence to give HR, but in the mean time you're still subject to the abuse and taking the toll on your mental health. Outside of a work environment, you're also subject to whatever delays the admins of your more private slack space might have around resolving the problem. Not everyone is going to be 24x7 to jump in and deal with abusive behaviour and kick people out. The lack of blocking in Slack has been repeatedly called out by people who have been on the receiving end of abuse in slack, through both work and community slacks, and have had to deal with either major delays, or flat out refusal to deal, from the relevant authorities for the workspaces.
jakelazaroff 3y ago
Mozilla's guiding principle is to create a "healthy Internet" [1]. Why wouldn't it be their business to make a feature request to another company in service of that goal? Obviously Slack thought it was valuable, too, because they added the feature. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/
theptip 3y ago
Lots of open source communities use slack. So there are many big open slacks too.
- pentagrama 3y ago
  Yes, for example WordPress [1], so I think the push for this feature is good. But also will be good a push to move those communities to a self hosted open source products like Zulip [2], Element [3] or Rocket Chat [4]. [1] https://make.wordpress.org/chat/ https://make.wordpress.org/chat/ [2] https://zulip.com https://zulip.com [3] https://element.io https://element.io [4] https://www.rocket.chat https://www.rocket.chat

by Yhippa 3y ago

mjr00 3y ago

Yeah, to me this is a bit odd. Many industries require that internal communication be logged, so E2E encryption and blocking are a no-go, and even having that option in the software can add potential regulatory headaches. I think it's fair to call out that Slack isn't a platform for interacting with strangers, nor the right tool for discussing a topic that would get you in trouble if e.g. your government saw your messages. But it's okay to just say, don't use Slack for that kind of thing; there's already other E2E encrypted messaging apps, and there's better platforms for managing communities of strangers where you have bad actors (who you can't deal with by contacting an HR department).

andybak 3y ago
Maybe people are using Slack in ways you don't expect? That's fine, surely. Isn't a better solution to have per instance administrative controls? Default to allowing blocking but allow companies to disable that feature. Make it clear to users in the UI when this has been done so they can complain if it's not appropriate to disable it.

catgary 3y ago

I find it weird anyone would have a problem with this, since the alternative is these advocacy groups actively pushing people to stop using these services.

jeltz 3y ago
> since the alternative is these advocacy groups actively pushing people to stop using these services. Which would be a great thing. Communities should not use Slack.

Twirrim 3y ago

> My impression is that most Slack instances are highly private and most users are explicitly invited. Not exactly true in companies, where you're subject to the whims of HR department eventually, maybe, probably not deciding to fire someone abusive. In the mean time you're subject to abuse over and over again. Great you get lots of evidence to give HR, but in the mean time you're still subject to the abuse and taking the toll on your mental health. Outside of a work environment, you're also subject to whatever delays the admins of your more private slack space might have around resolving the problem. Not everyone is going to be 24x7 to jump in and deal with abusive behaviour and kick people out. The lack of blocking in Slack has been repeatedly called out by people who have been on the receiving end of abuse in slack, through both work and community slacks, and have had to deal with either major delays, or flat out refusal to deal, from the relevant authorities for the workspaces.

jakelazaroff 3y ago

Mozilla's guiding principle is to create a "healthy Internet" [1]. Why wouldn't it be their business to make a feature request to another company in service of that goal? Obviously Slack thought it was valuable, too, because they added the feature. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/

theptip 3y ago

Lots of open source communities use slack. So there are many big open slacks too.

pentagrama 3y ago
Yes, for example WordPress [1], so I think the push for this feature is good. But also will be good a push to move those communities to a self hosted open source products like Zulip [2], Element [3] or Rocket Chat [4]. [1] https://make.wordpress.org/chat/ https://make.wordpress.org/chat/ [2] https://zulip.com https://zulip.com [3] https://element.io https://element.io [4] https://www.rocket.chat https://www.rocket.chat