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This is why you need context when discussing things. Imagine discussing the politics of the penal system and someone butts in, "imprisoning people is bad by def

This is why you need context when discussing things. Imagine discussing the politics of the penal system and someone butts in, "imprisoning people is bad by definition"... Ok man

s1artibartfast 3y ago
At least it would be a foundation for discussion that everyone could hopefully agree on. Change your framing from butting in to sitting down with someone and trying to agree on the penal policy. "do we all agree that incarceration is bad, and should only be used when the alternative is far worse." Do most people agree that affirmative action is racist? Should we ever allow racist government policy? If so, what are the limits for when the ends justify the means?
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  One question I've always wondered is - what is the appropriate racial makeup of an Ivy League student body? Imagine that after the latest ruling from the Supreme Court regarding affirmative action that the racial makeup of Harvard's next class is unchanged - would you think that Harvard had already achieved the "appropriate" balance prior to the ruling or that they were up to something fishy?
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    You can take another step back and ask if there is an appropriate racial makeup at all, and if so, is this something that we want the government to work towards achieving?
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      That's exactly what I asked, though I didn't ask if it was something the government should enforce, I asked if it was something the Ivy Leagues might do since they seem to be the gravitational heavyweight to which all arguments orbit.
qawwads 3y ago
>Imagine discussing the politics of the penal system and someone butts in, "imprisoning people is bad by definition"... Ok man And that someone would be right and that's why it should be avoided as much as possible. Because people refuse to have this discussion, imprisonment is applied at a far larger scale than necessary.
Der_Einzige 3y ago
That's what the ACAB crowd unironically believes.

This is why you need context when discussing things. Imagine discussing the politics of the penal system and someone butts in, "imprisoning people is bad by definition"... Ok man

s1artibartfast 3y ago

At least it would be a foundation for discussion that everyone could hopefully agree on. Change your framing from butting in to sitting down with someone and trying to agree on the penal policy. "do we all agree that incarceration is bad, and should only be used when the alternative is far worse." Do most people agree that affirmative action is racist? Should we ever allow racist government policy? If so, what are the limits for when the ends justify the means?

hotpotamus 3y ago
One question I've always wondered is - what is the appropriate racial makeup of an Ivy League student body? Imagine that after the latest ruling from the Supreme Court regarding affirmative action that the racial makeup of Harvard's next class is unchanged - would you think that Harvard had already achieved the "appropriate" balance prior to the ruling or that they were up to something fishy?
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  You can take another step back and ask if there is an appropriate racial makeup at all, and if so, is this something that we want the government to work towards achieving?
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    That's exactly what I asked, though I didn't ask if it was something the government should enforce, I asked if it was something the Ivy Leagues might do since they seem to be the gravitational heavyweight to which all arguments orbit.

qawwads 3y ago

>Imagine discussing the politics of the penal system and someone butts in, "imprisoning people is bad by definition"... Ok man And that someone would be right and that's why it should be avoided as much as possible. Because people refuse to have this discussion, imprisonment is applied at a far larger scale than necessary.

Der_Einzige 3y ago

That's what the ACAB crowd unironically believes.