3 ms·

No, but throwing disparate groups, each with their own interests, into the same pot, is not as conducive to harmony versus everyone belonging to more or less th

No, but throwing disparate groups, each with their own interests, into the same pot, is not as conducive to harmony versus everyone belonging to more or less the same "in" group. Both a melting pot society and a homogenous one have their pros and cons. I love the former, but I also don't pretend to think there aren't serious cons to a melting pot and pros to a homogeneity.

spankalee 3y ago
You still have no proposed link from "melting pot" to crime. You're just stating some demographic difference between the countries. Meanwhile there are some differences, especially in policy, that are very easy to link to crime: Japan has practically no guns. Japan has universal healthcare. The US has a poverty rate of over 10%, while Japan has a poverty rate of under 2%. Japan builds housing. Japanese public education is much more equitable and supported by the national government.
- jameslk 3y ago
  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- decafninja 3y ago
  Maybe it's a chicken and egg question? Why is Japan able to do that, and the US isn't? When practically everyone is a fellow Japanese, you don't have people griping about universal healthcare (or social safety nets in general) benefitting the "other" who "don't deserve it". Or feeling that you need to own guns to "protect yourself from the other".
  - spankalee 3y ago
    There's an easy link from guns -> violence. You're proposed link from homogeneity -> gun control is completely unsupported.
    - decafninja 3y ago
      Considering most developed countries have strict gun controls, the US is unique and you can't really apply the issues of guns to anywhere else. But a lot of pro-gun advocates cite that they want guns to protect themselves. My general point stands. If everyone around you is part of your "in" group, you're more likely to be willing to help them out and less likely to see them as a threat. I would like to believe that most people are able to transcend racial, ethnic, religious, or even national boundaries to help their fellow man. However, reality shows me this is not the case.
    - rayiner 3y ago
      Look at the homicide rates in some Latin American countries with no guns compared to similarly disarmed, poorer Asian countries.
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> No, but throwing disparate groups, each with their own interests, into the same pot, is not as conducive to harmony versus everyone belonging to more or less the same "in" group. This is not true, and not possible in practice. In any seemingly homogenous group there are various subgroups, often at odds with each other for whatever reason. It's just human nature. Harmony has more to do with local culture, the economy and other quality of life issues. Have a look at a place like Australia, which has little conflict overall even though it has a large and growing immigrant population. That has to do with an egalitarian culture and being a fairly wealthy country with nice weather.
- tempsy 3y ago
  I'm not really seeing where the racial diversity is in Australia. The 2021 census data shows majority of Australians are White/European and then some Chinese/Indian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia
  - dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
    That's because you think in terms of White and Black, which is a US centric view. The diversity is by ethnic background, skin colour is irrelevant. A more enlightening statistic is that about half of Australians have a parent that was born overseas, which means they have an ethnic background. https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2021-census-nearly-half-australians-have-parent-born-overseas https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2021-cens...
- decafninja 3y ago
  I can't speak specifically about Australia since I'm not familiar with it. But what is "local culture"? It's made up by the local people. In a homogenous society like Japan, it's Japanese culture. In a melting pot society like the US, it's a mix of the product of old European immigrants that have mostly merged and assimilated with each other, African Americans forcibly brought over via the slave trade that emerged with their own culture, and finally combined with more recent arrivals from Asia/Africa/Latin America who are much less assimilated. When one or more cultures meet, sometimes they adapt positively. Sometimes they adapt negatively. When you have so many cultures mixed together, there is bound to be friction. That doesn't necessarily mean violence, but it can be something more subtle - like certain races or groups resisting interacting with each other beyond the bare necessities. I wouldn't be surprised if this is true in Australia too. I'm Asian American, and I am ashamed to admit I have zero African American friends (I have Black friends, but they are all more recent African/European/Caribbean immigrants). Cultural norms and upbringing has a lot to do with it. At the risk of sounding too clinical, one of my goals is to genuinely befriend more African Americans.

spankalee 3y ago

You still have no proposed link from "melting pot" to crime. You're just stating some demographic difference between the countries. Meanwhile there are some differences, especially in policy, that are very easy to link to crime: Japan has practically no guns. Japan has universal healthcare. The US has a poverty rate of over 10%, while Japan has a poverty rate of under 2%. Japan builds housing. Japanese public education is much more equitable and supported by the national government.

jameslk 3y ago
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
decafninja 3y ago
Maybe it's a chicken and egg question? Why is Japan able to do that, and the US isn't? When practically everyone is a fellow Japanese, you don't have people griping about universal healthcare (or social safety nets in general) benefitting the "other" who "don't deserve it". Or feeling that you need to own guns to "protect yourself from the other".
- spankalee 3y ago
  There's an easy link from guns -> violence. You're proposed link from homogeneity -> gun control is completely unsupported.
  - decafninja 3y ago
    Considering most developed countries have strict gun controls, the US is unique and you can't really apply the issues of guns to anywhere else. But a lot of pro-gun advocates cite that they want guns to protect themselves. My general point stands. If everyone around you is part of your "in" group, you're more likely to be willing to help them out and less likely to see them as a threat. I would like to believe that most people are able to transcend racial, ethnic, religious, or even national boundaries to help their fellow man. However, reality shows me this is not the case.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    Look at the homicide rates in some Latin American countries with no guns compared to similarly disarmed, poorer Asian countries.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago

> No, but throwing disparate groups, each with their own interests, into the same pot, is not as conducive to harmony versus everyone belonging to more or less the same "in" group. This is not true, and not possible in practice. In any seemingly homogenous group there are various subgroups, often at odds with each other for whatever reason. It's just human nature. Harmony has more to do with local culture, the economy and other quality of life issues. Have a look at a place like Australia, which has little conflict overall even though it has a large and growing immigrant population. That has to do with an egalitarian culture and being a fairly wealthy country with nice weather.

tempsy 3y ago
I'm not really seeing where the racial diversity is in Australia. The 2021 census data shows majority of Australians are White/European and then some Chinese/Indian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  That's because you think in terms of White and Black, which is a US centric view. The diversity is by ethnic background, skin colour is irrelevant. A more enlightening statistic is that about half of Australians have a parent that was born overseas, which means they have an ethnic background. https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2021-census-nearly-half-australians-have-parent-born-overseas https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2021-cens...
decafninja 3y ago
I can't speak specifically about Australia since I'm not familiar with it. But what is "local culture"? It's made up by the local people. In a homogenous society like Japan, it's Japanese culture. In a melting pot society like the US, it's a mix of the product of old European immigrants that have mostly merged and assimilated with each other, African Americans forcibly brought over via the slave trade that emerged with their own culture, and finally combined with more recent arrivals from Asia/Africa/Latin America who are much less assimilated. When one or more cultures meet, sometimes they adapt positively. Sometimes they adapt negatively. When you have so many cultures mixed together, there is bound to be friction. That doesn't necessarily mean violence, but it can be something more subtle - like certain races or groups resisting interacting with each other beyond the bare necessities. I wouldn't be surprised if this is true in Australia too. I'm Asian American, and I am ashamed to admit I have zero African American friends (I have Black friends, but they are all more recent African/European/Caribbean immigrants). Cultural norms and upbringing has a lot to do with it. At the risk of sounding too clinical, one of my goals is to genuinely befriend more African Americans.