36 ms·

Can we start reporting on the fact that literally all small airplanes still fly using leaded gas? Live in SoCal? Cool, there are hundreds of small Cessna and si

Can we start reporting on the fact that literally all small airplanes still fly using leaded gas? Live in SoCal? Cool, there are hundreds of small Cessna and similar planes flying overhead 24/7 just spewing it into the air above you.

eppp 3y ago
If I recall, the FAA recently approved unleaded for that use.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  You've been able to fly a plane with unleaded fuel for decades. See every major airline burning jet fuel. It won't stop the use of leaded fuel until the FAA bans it, which should have happened decades ago. Your airplane can't fly without unleaded fuel? Cool! You can stare at it in the hangar!
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    > You've been able to fly a plane with unleaded fuel for decades. See every major airline burning jet fuel. Jet engines are completely different from the piston engines you'll find in general aviation (sans choppers, which mostly run on jet engines). Piston engines need leaded fuel for lubrication as well as knock resistance, and deviating from the original certification of the engine/plane requires a type-specific certification - every model of plane you want to fly that was certified with 100LL AvGas needs to be separately tested if it can fly safely with lead-free AvGas [1]. [1] https://www.flightglobal.com/engines/faa-approves-100-octane-unleaded-aviation-fuel-hastening-shift-from-leaded-gas/150065.article https://www.flightglobal.com/engines/faa-approves-100-octane...
    - andrewg 3y ago
      JetA-burning piston aircraft exist - almost all Diamonds for instance.
      - nmhancoc 3y ago
        General aviation is a pretty small market. I doubt the development costs can be justified. For reference Lycoming only switched away from carburetors around 2009, plus there’s the installed base of old engines being serviced. I do think some European engines have looked at diesel though
        mschuster91 3y ago
        > I doubt the development costs can be justified. There is no other reasonable choice. Lead fuel has to go away simply because of the amount of lead that deposits all around GA airports.
  - shrubble 3y ago
    It's a settled matter of law in the USA that you can't arbitrarily do that to people's property.
    - Spivak 3y ago
      It does happen sometimes but yeah, this is why laws are usually passed in the manner of "new planes can't use leaded fuel."
  - kayfox 3y ago
    > It won't stop the use of leaded fuel until the FAA bans it, Pretty much everyone in general aviation who is using leaded fuel wants to get away from it. It clogs corroborators and exhausts, requires special mitigation for spills and handling, and is generally not great. The FAA approved and is now working to promote GAMI G100UL to replace leaded fuel in aviation, the big roadblock is passed as it is approved for all engines for which 100LL was approved for. So the phase out will go as fast as FBOs switch and GAMI can manufacture or license.
coding123 3y ago
I specifically decided to buy a property where there are no small airports. A lot of them run flight training schools, which are super popular because China sends all of its pilots to the western US (Oregon, CA, Arizona). If you're near a metro (or even some of the smaller towns) you're just hearing zipping all day and breathing in the lead.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  Having lived directly under the flight path of an airport with tons of GA traffic, I never will again. The lead was bad, but what was fucking miserable was the pilots who took off at fucking dawn EVERY DAY and had to fly 100 ft above my apartment. Those planes are loud as fuck when on initial climb out from the runway.
dehrmann 3y ago
I'm still surprised by avgas. It's like aviation is 50 years behind.
- bluGill 3y ago
  The engines and planes in general aviation are more then 50 years behind. Most small planes in the air today where made before 1980. They have been rebuilt several times, but the original manufacturing was decades ago.
  - NavinF 3y ago
    That's what happens when the FAA makes it extremely expensive to get new GA aircraft approved. We're forced to fly 50 year old rust buckets, all in the name of safety

eppp 3y ago

If I recall, the FAA recently approved unleaded for that use.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sidewndr46 3y ago
You've been able to fly a plane with unleaded fuel for decades. See every major airline burning jet fuel. It won't stop the use of leaded fuel until the FAA bans it, which should have happened decades ago. Your airplane can't fly without unleaded fuel? Cool! You can stare at it in the hangar!
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > You've been able to fly a plane with unleaded fuel for decades. See every major airline burning jet fuel. Jet engines are completely different from the piston engines you'll find in general aviation (sans choppers, which mostly run on jet engines). Piston engines need leaded fuel for lubrication as well as knock resistance, and deviating from the original certification of the engine/plane requires a type-specific certification - every model of plane you want to fly that was certified with 100LL AvGas needs to be separately tested if it can fly safely with lead-free AvGas [1]. [1] https://www.flightglobal.com/engines/faa-approves-100-octane-unleaded-aviation-fuel-hastening-shift-from-leaded-gas/150065.article https://www.flightglobal.com/engines/faa-approves-100-octane...
  - andrewg 3y ago
    JetA-burning piston aircraft exist - almost all Diamonds for instance.
    - nmhancoc 3y ago
      General aviation is a pretty small market. I doubt the development costs can be justified. For reference Lycoming only switched away from carburetors around 2009, plus there’s the installed base of old engines being serviced. I do think some European engines have looked at diesel though
      - mschuster91 3y ago
        > I doubt the development costs can be justified. There is no other reasonable choice. Lead fuel has to go away simply because of the amount of lead that deposits all around GA airports.
- shrubble 3y ago
  It's a settled matter of law in the USA that you can't arbitrarily do that to people's property.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    It does happen sometimes but yeah, this is why laws are usually passed in the manner of "new planes can't use leaded fuel."
- kayfox 3y ago
  > It won't stop the use of leaded fuel until the FAA bans it, Pretty much everyone in general aviation who is using leaded fuel wants to get away from it. It clogs corroborators and exhausts, requires special mitigation for spills and handling, and is generally not great. The FAA approved and is now working to promote GAMI G100UL to replace leaded fuel in aviation, the big roadblock is passed as it is approved for all engines for which 100LL was approved for. So the phase out will go as fast as FBOs switch and GAMI can manufacture or license.

coding123 3y ago

I specifically decided to buy a property where there are no small airports. A lot of them run flight training schools, which are super popular because China sends all of its pilots to the western US (Oregon, CA, Arizona). If you're near a metro (or even some of the smaller towns) you're just hearing zipping all day and breathing in the lead.

sidewndr46 3y ago
Having lived directly under the flight path of an airport with tons of GA traffic, I never will again. The lead was bad, but what was fucking miserable was the pilots who took off at fucking dawn EVERY DAY and had to fly 100 ft above my apartment. Those planes are loud as fuck when on initial climb out from the runway.

dehrmann 3y ago

I'm still surprised by avgas. It's like aviation is 50 years behind.

bluGill 3y ago
The engines and planes in general aviation are more then 50 years behind. Most small planes in the air today where made before 1980. They have been rebuilt several times, but the original manufacturing was decades ago.
- NavinF 3y ago
  That's what happens when the FAA makes it extremely expensive to get new GA aircraft approved. We're forced to fly 50 year old rust buckets, all in the name of safety