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It seems obvious to me that there is genuine benefit: otherwise it is a giant scam against the advertisers as well as an invasion of individual privacy, and the

It seems obvious to me that there is genuine benefit: otherwise it is a giant scam against the advertisers as well as an invasion of individual privacy, and there would be lobbing from larger commercial entities affected to make the scam illegal if it were one. Though that there is a benefit to businesses, however small, does not make me inclined to be happy that I am stalked throughout my personal life online by a great many advertising firms, and information about me gleaned from that stalking bought and sold between them, in order for those businesses to experience said benefit. If it were banned globally, the “but how do I run my business otherwise?” question is a problem for the businesses, not me. The “most people don't mind, you are just being contrary” argument that I've seen once or twice is bunkum. If that were the case it would not be so often be made such a faf to opt-opt. One thing where I feel current privacy laws are a little off, is disallowing blocking for people who don't opt in. I've quite happy to be given a choice of “let this list of hundreds of third parties track you, or go away” (in case you haven't guessed, I'll go away) as long as no tracking is initiated between my arrival and going away without opting-in.

paulddraper 3y ago
If it weren't banned globally, the “but how do I protect my privacy?” question is a problem for the consumers, not me.
- pksebben 3y ago
  “I don’t consume stuff”, says paragon of austerity.
SoftTalker 3y ago
I don't particularly care if advertisers build a profile of me for the purpose of advertising. I use ad blockers and I rarely if ever see ads when doing anything online. My concern is that all this profile data is being slurped up by people who can really do harm: governments and their TLAs. People don't get sent to re-education camps (or worse) by companies trying to sell dog treats.
- the_other 3y ago
  So you DO care. A lot. Enough to install tools to frustrate the process.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    To me it reads like > I don't particularly care if advertisers build a profile of me for the purpose of advertising. [But I do care about not seeing ads in the first place, so] I use ad blockers and I rarely if ever see ads when doing anything online.
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    I block the ads because they are annoying, not out of concern that the advertiser per se has a profile about me.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      I am the reverse. I don't block ads per se, but I absolutely block scripts (which has the effect of blocking ads) because I find the spying completely unacceptable.
- dspillett 3y ago
  Like you, my problem isn't advertising, but the tracking. Though unlike your position this isn't because I block the adverts regardless. I wouldn't block the advertising if it were not for it being intimately linked with the tracking & recording. Apart from simply avoiding sites that carry rudely irritating adverts (huge pop-overs, auto-playing audio & video, …) that is. > People don't get sent to re-education camps (or worse) by companies trying to sell dog treats. No, but they might by state agencies that gain access to the data (by fair means, at least as defined by their laws, or foul) to use as part of a larger profile. My personal concern isn't state entities. Maybe this is some of my old-fashioned-ness speaking out but the idea of being followed around is just icky much like being followed home from the pub of an evening, or otherwise tracked in the real world, would be. Of course, there are people for whom state agencies are a concern, and not just state agencies but various negative activist groups and other undesirables: I know a few people who don't want parts of their personal lives (gender status, abortion, the fact they consider themselves atheist, etc.) tracked because in the wrong hands it could, even in 2023, lead them and/or their loved ones to come to harm. They don't want an advertising company holding information about them because this is just one hack away from a lot of other groups having the information, and while it is highly unlikely that they are tracking such information they likely have something that could help derive it (location data being the most obvious factor there, and advertiser love to track that).
idopmstuff 3y ago
Yep, I agree with what you're saying here. My personal preference is to allow greater advertising, even putting my own use for it aside, because I both generally believe it's better to let markets do what they will and also because I have a significantly above-average understanding of what's being tracked and how it's being used. My preference is for transparency, education and possibly regulation around how data that is collected can be sold to/shared with others. Still, I definitely the side of wanting to restrict it more in order to protect folks, and I think it's very much a worthy debate to have.

paulddraper 3y ago

If it weren't banned globally, the “but how do I protect my privacy?” question is a problem for the consumers, not me.

pksebben 3y ago
“I don’t consume stuff”, says paragon of austerity.

SoftTalker 3y ago

I don't particularly care if advertisers build a profile of me for the purpose of advertising. I use ad blockers and I rarely if ever see ads when doing anything online. My concern is that all this profile data is being slurped up by people who can really do harm: governments and their TLAs. People don't get sent to re-education camps (or worse) by companies trying to sell dog treats.

the_other 3y ago
So you DO care. A lot. Enough to install tools to frustrate the process.
- dmoy 3y ago
  To me it reads like > I don't particularly care if advertisers build a profile of me for the purpose of advertising. [But I do care about not seeing ads in the first place, so] I use ad blockers and I rarely if ever see ads when doing anything online.
- SoftTalker 3y ago
  I block the ads because they are annoying, not out of concern that the advertiser per se has a profile about me.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    I am the reverse. I don't block ads per se, but I absolutely block scripts (which has the effect of blocking ads) because I find the spying completely unacceptable.
dspillett 3y ago
Like you, my problem isn't advertising, but the tracking. Though unlike your position this isn't because I block the adverts regardless. I wouldn't block the advertising if it were not for it being intimately linked with the tracking & recording. Apart from simply avoiding sites that carry rudely irritating adverts (huge pop-overs, auto-playing audio & video, …) that is. > People don't get sent to re-education camps (or worse) by companies trying to sell dog treats. No, but they might by state agencies that gain access to the data (by fair means, at least as defined by their laws, or foul) to use as part of a larger profile. My personal concern isn't state entities. Maybe this is some of my old-fashioned-ness speaking out but the idea of being followed around is just icky much like being followed home from the pub of an evening, or otherwise tracked in the real world, would be. Of course, there are people for whom state agencies are a concern, and not just state agencies but various negative activist groups and other undesirables: I know a few people who don't want parts of their personal lives (gender status, abortion, the fact they consider themselves atheist, etc.) tracked because in the wrong hands it could, even in 2023, lead them and/or their loved ones to come to harm. They don't want an advertising company holding information about them because this is just one hack away from a lot of other groups having the information, and while it is highly unlikely that they are tracking such information they likely have something that could help derive it (location data being the most obvious factor there, and advertiser love to track that).

idopmstuff 3y ago

Yep, I agree with what you're saying here. My personal preference is to allow greater advertising, even putting my own use for it aside, because I both generally believe it's better to let markets do what they will and also because I have a significantly above-average understanding of what's being tracked and how it's being used. My preference is for transparency, education and possibly regulation around how data that is collected can be sold to/shared with others. Still, I definitely the side of wanting to restrict it more in order to protect folks, and I think it's very much a worthy debate to have.