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> It is somewhat a zero-sum game at least in urban centers. Driving is cheap because free and cheap parking is widely available, and car speed is prioritized ov

> It is somewhat a zero-sum game at least in urban centers. Driving is cheap because free and cheap parking is widely available, and car speed is prioritized over other factors including pedestrian safety. I've never seen an urban center where "free and cheap parking is widely available", or one with a speed limit above 25.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Chicago for example has both. Phoenix, las vegas. As do a number of medium-large cities in the southeast like raleigh, tampa, charleston SC. Maybe not cities that come to mind first when talking about urban centers but they are million+ population agglomerations with plentiful parking and serious pedestrian death problems. Tens of millions of americans live in these "small" cities of around a million, so trends across them end up affecting a huge population. Another factor is that urban speed limits vary widely in how much they are actually limits. Research is clear on the fact that road design has at least as strong an influence on driver behavior as posted limits do. Without rigorous enforcement & given the wide streets common in these places, driver behavior tends towards interpreting the limit as the minimum speed they are entitled to, rather than the maximum to be attained only when safe. And finally neither I nor anyone else here know what you've seen so that's a very silly limit to place on the conversation.
EatingWithForks 3y ago
I've been to NYC where free and cheap parking is on nearly every major and minor street. I would consider it widely available. Yes, trying to find a parking spot is a nightmare but that doesn't mean it isn't widely available generally.
- everdrive 3y ago
  >Yes, trying to find a parking spot is a nightmare but that doesn't mean it isn't widely available generally. But that’s exactly what it means. It’s not available to people. Someone else already parked there.
  - EatingWithForks 3y ago
    Well yes, because there are a lot of people. That doesn't mean NYC doesn't have ample parking; parking is literally everywhere all the time. Many streets park on both sides, so over 50% of the street real estate is parking! Consider maybe that parking demand is high, not that supply is low.
- jjav 3y ago
  > I would consider it widely available. Have you tried to park on the street in NYC? Parking is most certainly not widely available. If spots exist but all of them are always taken, that means zero availability. If you go to a restaurant with 100 tables, all of them full and a 2 hour waiting list, would you tell a friend on the phone "Yes they have lots of tables available"?

giraffe_lady 3y ago

Chicago for example has both. Phoenix, las vegas. As do a number of medium-large cities in the southeast like raleigh, tampa, charleston SC. Maybe not cities that come to mind first when talking about urban centers but they are million+ population agglomerations with plentiful parking and serious pedestrian death problems. Tens of millions of americans live in these "small" cities of around a million, so trends across them end up affecting a huge population. Another factor is that urban speed limits vary widely in how much they are actually limits. Research is clear on the fact that road design has at least as strong an influence on driver behavior as posted limits do. Without rigorous enforcement & given the wide streets common in these places, driver behavior tends towards interpreting the limit as the minimum speed they are entitled to, rather than the maximum to be attained only when safe. And finally neither I nor anyone else here know what you've seen so that's a very silly limit to place on the conversation.

EatingWithForks 3y ago

I've been to NYC where free and cheap parking is on nearly every major and minor street. I would consider it widely available. Yes, trying to find a parking spot is a nightmare but that doesn't mean it isn't widely available generally.

everdrive 3y ago
>Yes, trying to find a parking spot is a nightmare but that doesn't mean it isn't widely available generally. But that’s exactly what it means. It’s not available to people. Someone else already parked there.
- EatingWithForks 3y ago
  Well yes, because there are a lot of people. That doesn't mean NYC doesn't have ample parking; parking is literally everywhere all the time. Many streets park on both sides, so over 50% of the street real estate is parking! Consider maybe that parking demand is high, not that supply is low.
jjav 3y ago
> I would consider it widely available. Have you tried to park on the street in NYC? Parking is most certainly not widely available. If spots exist but all of them are always taken, that means zero availability. If you go to a restaurant with 100 tables, all of them full and a 2 hour waiting list, would you tell a friend on the phone "Yes they have lots of tables available"?