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This is part of a series that’s been running in the WSJ for a week now. There are still lead lined cables all over the country, with little awareness of the ris

This is part of a series that’s been running in the WSJ for a week now. There are still lead lined cables all over the country, with little awareness of the risks they pose; the first article in the series discussed cables going past playgrounds and daycare centers. https://www.wsj.com/articles/lead-cables-telecoms-att-toxic-5b34408b https://www.wsj.com/articles/lead-cables-telecoms-att-toxic-... https://archive.is/MA0wG https://archive.is/MA0wG “Aerial lead cabling runs alongside more than 100 schools with about 48,000 students in total. More than 1,000 schools and child-care centers sit within half a mile of an underwater lead cable, according to a Journal analysis using data from research firm MCH Strategic Data.” We took lead out of gas (except general aviation). Everyone who buys or rents an older home or even just buys paint at the hardware store is reminded of lead in paint. Most are aware of lead in pipes, especially where these pipes are present. Yet lead levels in children nationwide are still substantially higher than they should be given the mitigations that have already been done. These cables are likely a huge portion of what’s left, and almost nobody has heard of them. Even when they’re right in front of your face hanging from a telephone pole.

chaxor 3y ago
This is just an absolutely awful idea simply due to the weight. The reason people are trying to get carbon nanotube electricity lines in the air is not because 'nano' is a cool word, but because they're really light while conducting electricity. Lead is, well, quite the opposite of that.
- hammock 3y ago
  Carbon nanoparticles might pose their own risk, though my intuition suggests the threat is not as immediate or great as that from lead
  - scrlk 3y ago
    It would not surprise me if carbon nanoparticles could act in a similar way to asbestos, if inhaled.
    - chaxor 3y ago
      This has already been shown to be true, many times. There are significant problems with swcnts (and even more so with dwcnts or mwcnts, due to less effective macrophage breakdown from h2o2 release). But there are some applications where their use can be a large improvement. The fact that only very well trained professionals should ever come in contact with certain materials (like extremely high powered lines) makes this use case more acceptable. Additionally, concealing swcnts in a polymer and using extrusion methods of chlorosulfonic acid into carbon tetrachloride to make really compact nanowires can help quite a bit for making the product affect the public less if any problem may occur that downs the power lines.
- kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
  > This is just an absolutely awful idea simply due to the weight. Buried cables used to be lead jacketed before viable polymers suitable for long term use were developed in the modern era.
- Gordonjcp 3y ago
  Isn't it a problem that carbon is mostly one of the things you make nearly every resistor out of, instead of wires?
  - chaxor 3y ago
    Armchair swcnts are ballistic conductors. It matters quite a lot how that carbon is oriented.
    - Gordonjcp 3y ago
      How well do they conduct? At the moment aluminium is kind of the "sweet spot" between weight, cost, and conductivity.
      - chaxor 3y ago
        Ballistic conduction means 'perfect' conduction in a sense. There's no resistance. It's only for armchair swcnts though. Other metallic swcnts are also great conductors, but if you separate out the chiralities (semiconductors, etc) you might as well separate to just armchairs.
myself248 3y ago
"Within half a mile" is an inane standard. There's no evidence that a _buried_ cable leaches lead that far, that's simply bonkers. Lead is definitely not something to chew on, but this is histrionic fearbait reporting.
- sclarisse 3y ago
  Note that the half-mile statistic is connected to underwater cables, not buried cables. It is certainly an overcount, but it is probably not trivial to assess the local hydrology and the extent to which children’s play areas might be exposed to such water.
  - reaperducer 3y ago
    it is probably not trivial to assess the local hydrology and the extent to which children’s play areas might be exposed to such water. Especially since there are thousands and thousands of schools in America that get their water from wells. It doesn't seem overly-cautious to wonder about lead placed under a water course 50 years to a century ago finding its way into the groundwater supply a half-mile away.
    - prewett 3y ago
      Hopefully that wondering would lead to testing the water to see whether there is actually a problem.
    - gruez 3y ago
      >It doesn't seem overly-cautious to wonder about lead placed under a water course 50 years to a century ago finding its way into the groundwater supply a half-mile away. At that point wouldn't it be so diluted that it's basically indistinguishable from background levels?
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > There's no evidence that a _buried_ cable leaches lead that far Well, the question is how much lead leaches out and gets transported by rainfall down to groundwater tables from which we source our drinking water.
toast0 3y ago
The conspiracy theorist in me wonders why the telcos want us to know there's lead in the wires now. Maybe so they have an excuse to tear the wires down and end services in areas they don't care to service anymore. Maybe so they can get more subsidies to run fiber that they'll promise to connect people with, but won't ever need to account for.
- hanniabu 3y ago
  They've probably reached a point where they're failing at a higher rate and need replacing. Leaking this info would get the government involved and the telcos can probably get the taxpayers to foot the bill replacing all of them.
  - bnjms 3y ago
    Can tax payers also take ownership of the physical plant and sell access like we do to public airwaves? States rights should allow at least some states to do the right thing.
  - DropInIn 3y ago
    Beyond gross how often citizens are subsidizing the businesses that rob Peter to pay Paul... We should be forcing the profiteers (shareholders) to repay it and be imprisoning the thieves, not paying Peter (remediation) for them.
  - BitwiseFool 3y ago
    It's certainly possible that this situation might sway Congress to pass some sort of lead wiring replacement act.
  - Aloha 3y ago
    The cables are near end of life and unlikely to be replaced at all, because the entirety of the copper network and its associated hardware is also near end of life.
    - EvanAnderson 3y ago
DANmode 3y ago
It depends on the local water table, doesn't it?
NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
[flagged]
- nashashmi 3y ago
  One day we will also focus on why live electricity is running right in front of schools and sidewalks where children are walking to and from school.
MrVitaliy 3y ago
GA is getting rid of lead too -- https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20and%20reliable,damage%20at%20higher%20power%20settings https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas#:~:text=The%20mo....
downrightmike 3y ago
Actually little remediation has gone on, as it would cost billions to solve the problem and keep kids safe, and not many in government want to actually solve the issue. The only thing that has happened is pretty much the removal of lead from paint and gas and let nature bury the rest.
BaculumMeumEst 3y ago
> Everyone who buys or rents an older home or even just buys paint at the hardware store is reminded of lead in paint. Most are aware of lead in pipes, especially where these pipes are present. Yet lead levels in children nationwide are still substantially higher than they should be given the mitigations that have already been done. Things like food contamination can be tricky to stop, but we’re getting better at it. I get amazon alerts when batches of a food I buy from whole foods were found to be contaminated. That’s only happened once, but it turned out to be okay. Worth noting that the mitigations you mentioned do work, because many kids live in the environment you describe but do not have elevated levels of lead.

chaxor 3y ago

This is just an absolutely awful idea simply due to the weight. The reason people are trying to get carbon nanotube electricity lines in the air is not because 'nano' is a cool word, but because they're really light while conducting electricity. Lead is, well, quite the opposite of that.

hammock 3y ago
Carbon nanoparticles might pose their own risk, though my intuition suggests the threat is not as immediate or great as that from lead
- scrlk 3y ago
  It would not surprise me if carbon nanoparticles could act in a similar way to asbestos, if inhaled.
  - chaxor 3y ago
    This has already been shown to be true, many times. There are significant problems with swcnts (and even more so with dwcnts or mwcnts, due to less effective macrophage breakdown from h2o2 release). But there are some applications where their use can be a large improvement. The fact that only very well trained professionals should ever come in contact with certain materials (like extremely high powered lines) makes this use case more acceptable. Additionally, concealing swcnts in a polymer and using extrusion methods of chlorosulfonic acid into carbon tetrachloride to make really compact nanowires can help quite a bit for making the product affect the public less if any problem may occur that downs the power lines.
kevin_thibedeau 3y ago
> This is just an absolutely awful idea simply due to the weight. Buried cables used to be lead jacketed before viable polymers suitable for long term use were developed in the modern era.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
Isn't it a problem that carbon is mostly one of the things you make nearly every resistor out of, instead of wires?
- chaxor 3y ago
  Armchair swcnts are ballistic conductors. It matters quite a lot how that carbon is oriented.
  - Gordonjcp 3y ago
    How well do they conduct? At the moment aluminium is kind of the "sweet spot" between weight, cost, and conductivity.
    - chaxor 3y ago
      Ballistic conduction means 'perfect' conduction in a sense. There's no resistance. It's only for armchair swcnts though. Other metallic swcnts are also great conductors, but if you separate out the chiralities (semiconductors, etc) you might as well separate to just armchairs.

myself248 3y ago

"Within half a mile" is an inane standard. There's no evidence that a _buried_ cable leaches lead that far, that's simply bonkers. Lead is definitely not something to chew on, but this is histrionic fearbait reporting.

sclarisse 3y ago
Note that the half-mile statistic is connected to underwater cables, not buried cables. It is certainly an overcount, but it is probably not trivial to assess the local hydrology and the extent to which children’s play areas might be exposed to such water.
- reaperducer 3y ago
  it is probably not trivial to assess the local hydrology and the extent to which children’s play areas might be exposed to such water. Especially since there are thousands and thousands of schools in America that get their water from wells. It doesn't seem overly-cautious to wonder about lead placed under a water course 50 years to a century ago finding its way into the groundwater supply a half-mile away.
  - prewett 3y ago
    Hopefully that wondering would lead to testing the water to see whether there is actually a problem.
  - gruez 3y ago
    >It doesn't seem overly-cautious to wonder about lead placed under a water course 50 years to a century ago finding its way into the groundwater supply a half-mile away. At that point wouldn't it be so diluted that it's basically indistinguishable from background levels?
mschuster91 3y ago
> There's no evidence that a _buried_ cable leaches lead that far Well, the question is how much lead leaches out and gets transported by rainfall down to groundwater tables from which we source our drinking water.

toast0 3y ago

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders why the telcos want us to know there's lead in the wires now. Maybe so they have an excuse to tear the wires down and end services in areas they don't care to service anymore. Maybe so they can get more subsidies to run fiber that they'll promise to connect people with, but won't ever need to account for.

hanniabu 3y ago
They've probably reached a point where they're failing at a higher rate and need replacing. Leaking this info would get the government involved and the telcos can probably get the taxpayers to foot the bill replacing all of them.
- bnjms 3y ago
  Can tax payers also take ownership of the physical plant and sell access like we do to public airwaves? States rights should allow at least some states to do the right thing.
- DropInIn 3y ago
  Beyond gross how often citizens are subsidizing the businesses that rob Peter to pay Paul... We should be forcing the profiteers (shareholders) to repay it and be imprisoning the thieves, not paying Peter (remediation) for them.
- BitwiseFool 3y ago
  It's certainly possible that this situation might sway Congress to pass some sort of lead wiring replacement act.
- Aloha 3y ago
  The cables are near end of life and unlikely to be replaced at all, because the entirety of the copper network and its associated hardware is also near end of life.
  - EvanAnderson 3y ago

DANmode 3y ago

It depends on the local water table, doesn't it?

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

[flagged]

nashashmi 3y ago
One day we will also focus on why live electricity is running right in front of schools and sidewalks where children are walking to and from school.

MrVitaliy 3y ago

GA is getting rid of lead too -- https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas#:~:text=The%20most%20common%20and%20reliable,damage%20at%20higher%20power%20settings https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/avgas#:~:text=The%20mo....

downrightmike 3y ago

Actually little remediation has gone on, as it would cost billions to solve the problem and keep kids safe, and not many in government want to actually solve the issue. The only thing that has happened is pretty much the removal of lead from paint and gas and let nature bury the rest.

BaculumMeumEst 3y ago

> Everyone who buys or rents an older home or even just buys paint at the hardware store is reminded of lead in paint. Most are aware of lead in pipes, especially where these pipes are present. Yet lead levels in children nationwide are still substantially higher than they should be given the mitigations that have already been done. Things like food contamination can be tricky to stop, but we’re getting better at it. I get amazon alerts when batches of a food I buy from whole foods were found to be contaminated. That’s only happened once, but it turned out to be okay. Worth noting that the mitigations you mentioned do work, because many kids live in the environment you describe but do not have elevated levels of lead.