5 ms·

How was anyone able to sell dog treats before pervasive digital surveillance? Must not have been possible.

by dublinben 3y ago

w0m 3y ago
because The Old Way is universally better.
- 93po 3y ago
  in this case it clearly is? i don't care about capitalism's ability to unethically try to manipulate me into giving it money. if it sucks for business owners then that's too bad - maybe they should do something different with their time.
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    Yeah, well, that's where we differ. I think giving small business owners access to tools to show up in front of an audience that is interested in them is worthwhile while you believe almost all consumer products should be sold only by megaconglomerates who can afford large blocks of advertising. That's a pretty big difference in our viewpoints and while HN currently tends towards yours, I have no doubt that my objectives lead to a better world for consumers (and actually, non-consumers as well) than yours.
    - bigbillheck 3y ago
      How about the option in which there's still at most limited ads and we also break up all those big corporations into lots of little ones?
      - renewiltord 3y ago
        I don't think active management of company size works successfully. The enforcement division of any nation would be a significant portion of GDP. And what happens to products like the iPhone? After the ten thousandth iPhone, you're a $10 mm revenue company and someone else sells the next iPhone? I'm not convinced that's better for consumers and non-consumers.
    - manuelmoreale 3y ago
      Considering you make a very bold claim would you mind expanding on how you think your viewpoint is actually better?
    - 93po 3y ago
      > That's a pretty big difference in our viewpoints and while HN currently tends towards yours This is an interesting phenomenon no matter what the topic is - I experience it too. It's human nature to feel counter culture. I believe HN is pretty strongly pro-capitalism for reasons that are obvious due to the nature of the site. I don't think small business owners are innately more deserving of money. They still make money off the backs of others, just at smaller scales. Competition is important to make capitalism less sociopathic but small business owners aren't meaningfully competing with Amazon. Also to be clear, I think all advertising is unethical. It's a spectrum for sure though.
BurningFrog 3y ago
You probably had to be a major national brand.
- giaour 3y ago
  That's not true. I am old enough to remember that we had boutique dog treats in the 90s, too. The vet my parents used sold some, and I recall several nearby bakeries (not chains) selling house-made dog biscuits.
  - pksebben 3y ago
    Yeah that’s the current situation is better for small businesses is a bit of a weird take, considering how consolidated the world has gotten in the last 20 years. While there might be anecdotes to support such a claim, the numbers tell a different story. Any reduction in friction is bound to benefit the businesses with the largest footprint, as they can leverage economies of scale and recursive synergies.
    - idopmstuff 3y ago
      > Yeah that’s the current situation is better for small businesses is a bit of a weird take, considering how consolidated the world has gotten in the last 20 years. I think it's more nuanced than that - it's not that the current situation overall is better, it's that the state of advertising is better. On the other side of things, the ability of large corporations to achieve greater economies of scale is decidedly worse for small businesses, to your point. The fact that targeted advertising is there helps to offset that a bit.
  - vasco 3y ago
    Yes but the barrier to start a internet-only small business with advertising is the lowest it's ever been. Before you were either only local (bad luck if there's already a pet store in your town), or you had to be huge. Online advertising is a great equalizer that has allowed many regular people to run successful businesses without much starting capital.
Dma54rhs 3y ago
By being a monopoly in your region of course.

How was anyone able to sell dog treats before pervasive digital surveillance? Must not have been possible.

w0m 3y ago

because The Old Way is universally better.

93po 3y ago
in this case it clearly is? i don't care about capitalism's ability to unethically try to manipulate me into giving it money. if it sucks for business owners then that's too bad - maybe they should do something different with their time.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Yeah, well, that's where we differ. I think giving small business owners access to tools to show up in front of an audience that is interested in them is worthwhile while you believe almost all consumer products should be sold only by megaconglomerates who can afford large blocks of advertising. That's a pretty big difference in our viewpoints and while HN currently tends towards yours, I have no doubt that my objectives lead to a better world for consumers (and actually, non-consumers as well) than yours.
  - bigbillheck 3y ago
    How about the option in which there's still at most limited ads and we also break up all those big corporations into lots of little ones?
    - renewiltord 3y ago
      I don't think active management of company size works successfully. The enforcement division of any nation would be a significant portion of GDP. And what happens to products like the iPhone? After the ten thousandth iPhone, you're a $10 mm revenue company and someone else sells the next iPhone? I'm not convinced that's better for consumers and non-consumers.
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    Considering you make a very bold claim would you mind expanding on how you think your viewpoint is actually better?
  - 93po 3y ago
    > That's a pretty big difference in our viewpoints and while HN currently tends towards yours This is an interesting phenomenon no matter what the topic is - I experience it too. It's human nature to feel counter culture. I believe HN is pretty strongly pro-capitalism for reasons that are obvious due to the nature of the site. I don't think small business owners are innately more deserving of money. They still make money off the backs of others, just at smaller scales. Competition is important to make capitalism less sociopathic but small business owners aren't meaningfully competing with Amazon. Also to be clear, I think all advertising is unethical. It's a spectrum for sure though.

BurningFrog 3y ago

You probably had to be a major national brand.

giaour 3y ago
That's not true. I am old enough to remember that we had boutique dog treats in the 90s, too. The vet my parents used sold some, and I recall several nearby bakeries (not chains) selling house-made dog biscuits.
- pksebben 3y ago
  Yeah that’s the current situation is better for small businesses is a bit of a weird take, considering how consolidated the world has gotten in the last 20 years. While there might be anecdotes to support such a claim, the numbers tell a different story. Any reduction in friction is bound to benefit the businesses with the largest footprint, as they can leverage economies of scale and recursive synergies.
  - idopmstuff 3y ago
    > Yeah that’s the current situation is better for small businesses is a bit of a weird take, considering how consolidated the world has gotten in the last 20 years. I think it's more nuanced than that - it's not that the current situation overall is better, it's that the state of advertising is better. On the other side of things, the ability of large corporations to achieve greater economies of scale is decidedly worse for small businesses, to your point. The fact that targeted advertising is there helps to offset that a bit.
- vasco 3y ago
  Yes but the barrier to start a internet-only small business with advertising is the lowest it's ever been. Before you were either only local (bad luck if there's already a pet store in your town), or you had to be huge. Online advertising is a great equalizer that has allowed many regular people to run successful businesses without much starting capital.

Dma54rhs 3y ago

By being a monopoly in your region of course.